vapor locking or not
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vapor locking or not
Posted: June 12 2006 08:47 PM
 
bob levia (aka amy14760yahoocom) [ View ] [ amy14760@yahoo.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
allegany, New York
(716) 372-3453
 
hey guys i need your help i have 47 chevy pickup truck with mild 350 chevy the trouble im haveing is this im haveing the truck wanting to stall when temp gets up around 180 on gauges the run down is the fuel line runs the length of the frame from rear to front on the out side to help keep the heat away goes into fuel pump then from there to the regulator from there to the edelbrock carb pressure gauge reads 6psi all day long but when in heavy traffic it will drop down to 3psi then before it wants to stall it reads at 1psi fuel line from holley pump (new) to regulator has summit heat shield the split type on it i work as a tech for fleet service ive never ran across this before the line from pump to reg also near lower radiator hose heater hoses and i do have air cond and those hoses are close ive been think of electric pump to cut down on the fuel line path and away from the other heat sources i just can not stand the vibration in my behind all day long any thoughts thanks in advance for your help bob up in ny
 
Comments
 
Posted by 528hemi  -  05/28/2006 07:07 PM

Hi Bob,



Since the fuel pressure gauge (liquid) is mounted under the hood..the pressure showing on the gauge will decrease even though the fuel pressure is actually higher. You can confirm this by blowing hot air (blow dryer) on the gauge with the hood open. I have a simular problem on my 66 528hemi charger and working to correct the problem...My problem is a vapor lock which I am working to correct. I still can run all day long but pressure drops to zero on WOT.



Jed

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Posted by 528hemi  -  05/28/2006 07:07 PM

Hi Bob,



Since the fuel pressure gauge (liquid) is mounted under the hood..the pressure showing on the gauge will decrease even though the fuel pressure is actually higher. You can confirm this by blowing hot air (blow dryer) on the gauge with the hood open. I have a simular problem on my 66 528hemi charger and working to correct the problem...My problem is a vapor lock which I am working to correct. I still can run all day long but pressure drops to zero on WOT.



Jed

528hemi [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] rock Tavern, New York
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/18/2006 09:10 PM
hey guys to answer a few thoughts asked no there isnt chrome cover over the air cleaner or carb when talking to tech line at edelbrock they informed now days with some of the additives in fuel the ones where not told about being there it will make the fuel what they call purculation in float bowl i told him with last years combination of highrise and holley carb it never did this he said the dureshine intake are known to hold in the heat nd thats why they highly recommend the use of a heat type riser gasket i lookeed in booklet sure enough there it was in plain righting i looked in booklets from past carbs ive bought from edelbrock no where in those books did it say anything about perculation of fuel so guys this is some thing that we all will have to remember to watch out for tech line says holleys wont due the same thing due to the float bowls being higher on the carb edelbrocks are right at the lowest level of carb anyways i ordered there 1/2 heat resistant gasket it will be put on sat 5/20/06 i will let you guys know the out come if you read that i died from lead posioning you will know it did not work keeping figers crossed bob in ny ( you guys are great for all your help )
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 09:41 PM
yeah thanks a bunch bob. this'll eat at me all day while i'm painting the vette .
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/18/2006 09:23 PM
edwards 37 has a 600 holley and yes the fuel is perculating. i believe it is the summer mix of ethanol. we are going to try octane boost. there is a 1/2 phenolic spacer on his car. i'll find out whats up next week sometime as i will have to fix it...... news at 11.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/20/2006 01:25 PM
Not unless it's getting real hot and there's no air flow around the motor. It's real unlikely with a holley. You may be having a different problem altogether. I guess we'll know more on monday.
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by jomoty  -  05/19/2006 01:08 AM
A buddy of mine has A jeep, and mounted an edelbrock manafold and he had to install the heat shield under the manafold before install?
jomoty [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Galt, California
 
Posted by jomoty  -  05/20/2006 08:55 PM
Mounted the stock metal heat sheild off his old manafold to the under side of the edelbrock intake manafold, This is what the edelbrock instruction book said to him. I think he is running a 390, I think? and my buddy said that this motor runs hot, at lest thats what there telling him. Im running a mild 350 in my 30 model a with mechanical pump,headers are close to fuel line, I have no pessure gauge.I`m running edelbrock 650 carb and perform intake, No problems yet. But I don`t under stand what the hood has to do with your fuel? Ok I under stand that heat is the issue,But a good running Truck this does not matter.This is my 2cents John G.
jomoty [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Galt, California
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/21/2006 12:59 PM
patriot clippsters. only bad thing is the dump on the drivers side is way too low. workable but too low.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by kylew  -  05/21/2006 10:26 AM

Try putting the carb on another car to see the if the problem happens there; or another similar carb on your truck.



Would a temperature related vacuum leak on the carb/intake/line connections cause this - the leak opens as the engine warms up? This is ancient history but, years ago there was a series of Quadrajet carb (for Ponchos and big blocks?) that had a very thin metal plate that HAD to be installed between the carb and certain GM intakes. Otherwise the car was nearly impossible to start and the fuel "boiled" from the gitgo even on a cold start. The GM parts guy told us the plate had something to do with vacuum.



I know this plate wouldn't fix this but are you sure the carb/intake setup is correct? Have you checked for cracks or a warped baseplate that gets worse with heat?

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Posted by kwaite  -  05/21/2006 12:41 PM
Shine, What brand of headers are those?
kwaite [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Brighton, Michigan
 
Posted by 37fordguy  -  05/21/2006 06:40 PM
As far as I can see the battery may have been the problem of not starting after running for a while. Now we must address the popping and hesitation while driving. Film at eleven.
37fordguy [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] North Richland Hills, Texas
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/22/2006 02:34 PM
hey guys weekend over alot of things done to truck let me put it this way do any of you guys know any one in the market for a 47 chevy truck with a slight fuel delivery problem i added two heat spacers i changed fuel octane with octane booster no luck i put mechanical pump back on with one of your recommendations im leaveing electric pump in i like the fact of fast start ill just shut down the electric one once eng warms up i also took regulateor apart to clear out the guts now its free flowing guys the weather up here over weekend was 55 so put blanket in front of grill to make it heat up to 190 degrees it still made pressure drop to 1 1/2 psi but good news it didnt stall at that psi i could see gauge through crack left open in hood at gauge area it would drop down below 1 psi but it would recover back up to 1 1/2 psi again it was cool up here the past few days im afraid dureing one of those 90 degree days all hell will let loose i ordered intake and carb from edelbrock to match there cam and other components i even checked for leaks in fuel lines with soap and air pressue ok and if there was a leak in the manifold to head or carb plate why would it drop the psi and the truck wouldnt run down the road as well as it does of course i cant see the psi gauge but doesnt skip a beat thanks again guys i owe each of ya my most thanks believe you me bob in ny
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by Willys33  -  05/22/2006 03:02 PM

Bob,



Did you ever take the suction line off the mechinical fuel pump and put it in a can of gas? I think you are sucking air someplace, BUT by trying this it would either confirm or rule out the line from there to the tank.

Get off the trailer and drive [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Alamogordo, New Mexico
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/22/2006 06:55 PM

willeys i plugged fuel line off front to back pumped 12 psi air into line used soap on line no bubbles also used vaccum pump to pump line down vaccum it held that over night shine the cross over for manifold was plugged from the factor all blocked off shine have 1 1/2 psi





































willeys33 i used 12 psi air in line front to back wet down with soap water no bubbles at all used vaccum pump next pumped it down it held pressue all night long and no i havent used gas can as fuel supply yet im in the process of putting the mechanical pump back on im going to run both i like the fact of it starting right up when it sits a few days some reason edelbrocks loose there prime when they sit a few days ill let you know how i make out bob in ny







































amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/22/2006 02:42 PM
pressure drop at idle is normal with mech. 2.5 to 3 at idle . dont know whats going on with it but maybe you have it on the run. i'm going to fatten the 37 up a few and got to bigger pv and a 50 cc pump. di you block off the exhaust crossover ?
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/22/2006 06:58 PM
shine intake was plugged off from factory cross over and i have these psi with the electric pump ibought from napa im going to run both pumps like ive done in the past hope this helps the psi when waqrmed up will keep you guys informed of this next step bob in ny
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/22/2006 08:03 PM

Bob, if it didn't stall at the low pressure, I would lean more towards fuel volume.



Does the truck run out fine at higher rpms? Does it drop off as if its running out of gas?



I'm not as concerned with the pressure, because we aren't talking F.I. that needs a certain amount to force the fuel through the injectors at a rate of psi and gallons per hour.



A carburator runs off of vacuum. Using pressure to get the fuel to it and keep the bowls full. You cant get fuel in without some pressure from the pump. If the pump was pumping 1 or 2 psi and still able to flow enough fuel to keep the bowls full, all would be well.



What size is the fuel line?

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/22/2006 09:40 PM

72 cheyanne the trouble is when the psi drops down at idle for about 15 minutes on a hot day it was stalling out with the psi going down to 1 1/2 then you could watch it drop do to 0 psi then stall now its cooler last few days it hasnt stalled it stills drops down to 0 psi then it will recover back to 1 1/2 psi mind you its cooler up here driveing down the road it runs like a cat up on a hot tin roof when i throttle it with hood open to be able to see pressure gauge it will go up to 2 psi the problem is at long idle time on hotter days thats going to be most of the summer in ny im going to try putting hose directly into fuel can from suction side just to eliminate the fuel line from front to rear if still does it then ill hard line it right from pump to carb other then a new piece of injector hose 3 inch long going into carb if still does it ill use another friends carb to see if any changes there it makes sense that it has to be before the electric pump 3 ft from tank you would think a pressureized fuel line would not drop the pressure like this thanks for your help bob in getting warmer ny ive been embarrassed before for eng failer i just dont want it to happen every week end thanks again

amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by orphans2  -  05/23/2006 11:21 AM

Regarding the fuel pressure drop problem, if you have not already, you might consider replacing your fuel regulator with one that stops pressure drops. They're primarily designed for racing but may work with your application. They have units that work with both carb and efi for engines up to 2000 hp. Made by Magnafuel, they are not cheap; run about $135 for a 2 port unit. Might help to eliminate the pressure dropping.



Or you could just leave the hood off. Some engines just need to be seen!

orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by crash12888  -  05/22/2006 11:22 PM
Bob, Do you notice a change when the fuel level in the tank is low or full or half? The reason I ask is a friend had a car that was acting like this and only acted up from @ 1/2 tank and lower. Lower it got worse it got. Everyone thought it was tank not venting. We found the pickup tube in the tank had a hairline crack running down it and as the fuel dropped it would get worse untill it left him kicking cans on the side of the road. Just wondering if you checked the sending unit pick up tube when you did the psi testing.
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Posted by jomoty  -  05/23/2006 12:49 AM
Thanks,Shine I will change that, Don`t what that to go out on the road.Johnny G.
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Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/22/2006 02:45 PM
jomoty, just a word of caution. those clear plastic fuel filters have a nasty habit of splitting open. seen it more than once. i use the metal can ones.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 05:59 PM
you have a flat lob on your cam. at idle it does not have enough lift. at rpm it compensates for it.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 06:19 PM
most new cams recomend synthetic oils , i refuse to use anything else. the cam in mary's 55 failed in a year because ship put a cleaner oil in it before adding mobli 1.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 05:24 PM
anything over 5 lbs will cause problems. i believe the one i use puts out max of 5.5. i'll check. if it only happens when up to temp thats weird. vent prob or air leak would show up pretty quick. does it do it a hwy speeds ?
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/23/2006 06:46 PM

Smooth surface will not transfer heat to air as well as rough surface or finned surface.



The air moving over the engine if it is cooler than the surface temp of the engine, will take the heat from the surface as it passes over. If it is as warm or warmer it will not. The rough surface with will slow the air down and cause it to take the heat through radiaton transfer. Finned surfaces will channel the air and will transfer heat better through more contact. The smooth surface will allow the air to move without hinderance and much contact and in effect insulate the surface,especially if the air temp is close to the surface temp, actually causing it to retain heat.

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/15/2006 05:56 PM

at highway speeds its ok no lose of power even when getting into it like who can afford that these days gas at 3.23/ gallon in ny only wants to stall and lose of pressure after being caught in low speed cruises and like i mentioned in last message im going to put a clear fuel line between regulator and the carb close hood down almost closed watch for air bubbles in line very puzzled bob in ny



amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by HenryThe32d  -  05/15/2006 07:41 PM
Shine If the cam is bad why would it need to be 180 degrees to run bad? I thought that he also said it was ok until he made changes going to chrome lines. I think that it would be worth trying to insulate those lines running near high heat. For testing try wrapping line with several layers of aluminum foil, or better yet fire sleve. Maybe going down the highway is allowing lines to be cooled by air passing over them.
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Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/15/2006 09:22 PM
the fuel line going into fuel pump runs the length of frame from rear on the out side of frame up and over the upper control arms closest to the tire and the out going fuel line is about 22 inch long going from pump to regulator mounted at the top of the inner wheel well again these lines are all touching each other at the fuel line and the heater hoses and next to lower radiator hose last year the truck had a 780 holley carb on it that leaked bad put on the new edelbrock dureshine intake and 600 cfm edelbrock carb there is no riser spacer between carb and manifold because in the past ive ran this way ok no problems shounds like shines idea of electric napa pump might be the way to go its one of those things that will bother me or even now all of us to know the cause of it even the heat wrap bought from summit runs the whole 22 inchs of metal fuel line to the regulator ny bob
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/15/2006 10:59 PM
How old is the tank? Is there a sock still on the end of the pickup?
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by 35delivery  -  05/16/2006 09:30 AM
A couple of thoughts here...if the tank is old some rust may be clogging the pickup. Another old trick we used years ago was to put wooden clothes pins on the line where it was close to the manifold to help insulate it from the heat...I didn't ask why but it did work.
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Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  05/16/2006 02:08 PM
hey guys shine has won the advise of all i went and bought a napa 5psi electric fuel pump i have it all plumbed just will need to run it to switch so it can be shut down when key on ill let all know how it works for me shine was right also with the amount of noise this napa pump makes its not for the hp application but thats not what its all about to answer previouse questions on fuel tank it is a alum tank from rock valley 22 gallon when pulling fuel lines off as many times i had to in the past few days i took a gas bath the soap i use i could have bought about 43 bars of soap for the amount i wore lately but when i blew low pressure air back into tank to get fuel to stop running on me all was good then when i installed tank 2 years ago it didnt have any type of sock on it instruction said lower hose in to tank mark line pull up 1/2 inch so not to pickup any dirt or water i did use water remover after each winter if this doesnt work any of you guys will be able to buy a 35000.00 truck cheap bob in ny
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 05:54 PM
i have not used a mech pump since 84. to my knowledge none have failed.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 07:57 PM
not sure henry. i have not seen vapor lock in years. i run steel line from carb down in front of head like mech lines . i realy dont think heat is the problem but it very well could be. i would think it would not go away at speed since the temp will still be at 180 +. the reason i said cam is because a lot of cam failures are happening today because of new designs in cams. good ole 10w30 will kill one real quick with the aggressive ramps on the lobs . once you lose the hardened surface a cam will fail in 500 miles. simple test would be in line fuel pump at rear with everything else the same. cam could have went south at the same time the lines were changed. crazier things have happened to me.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/15/2006 08:15 PM
i still vote for electric pump brants right on vapor lock. i just have not seen any of todays gas vapor lock in a long time. doing good to get the crap to burn.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by toolman13  -  05/16/2006 06:46 PM
Bob: I would check that 8 inches of rubber hose and see if it isn't collapsing on you. Some hose is not made for gasoline. The more it warms up, the more it collapses.
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Posted by Willys33  -  05/15/2006 04:21 PM
Almost sounds like you have an air leak somewhere in the line. Way to check this is to remove the suction line from the pump and put a flex line into a gas can AFTER the problem starts. If you maintain constant pressure you have an air leak somewhere back to the tank. The tank is vented isn't it?
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Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  06/12/2006 08:47 PM
brant we had hot weekend here in ny about 82 degrees i got to car show long line to get in as expected i idled in to show opened hood as soon as i parked it was at 1 1/2 psi it did want to stall but didnt i have the pressure reg now at direct feed i took guts out of it thinking it was bad modified it inside to get better flow when truck starts im right at 7 psi with just mechanical pump on when the under hood air gets hotter slow traffic i turn the napa electric pump on just so i dont have the embarrasment of haveing to be pushed on the show field the set up truck had when i bought it was edelbrock manifold with 780 holley no troubles then but i didnt have a psi gauge then either to see psi was it there i dont know i was just told with hood closed down im building under hood pressure but if you know the body style of 47 chevy trucks the hoods never fit no matter how you try to adj it the fix i was told by others was higher fuel pump that will put out 14 psi and to adj it down to a 5-6 psi with regulator thats another 175.00 cost to me and others say air gap manifolds help there 199.00 i know i cant give up i cant see haveing a 40,000 truck sit in the shop collecting dust thanks again fellas bob in ny
amy14760yahoocom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] allegany, New York Charter Member since July 2005
 
Posted by JAWS  -  06/09/2006 12:47 AM

What ever happend to this issue. Is it resolved and if so what was the cure?-Brant

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by amy14760yahoocom  -  06/09/2006 11:35 AM
brant the trouble still is there not as bad though just a fast review i added a 2 inch phenolic spacer a mr gasket heat shield between spacer and carb known as the cookie sheet look i left the electric fuel pump on inline with the mechanical pump added heat wrap to fuel lines there is no more then 1 inch of rubber hose between metal 3/8 hoses no chance of colapse there drive all day long open hood psi at 3 1/2 let idle for more then 20 minutes it slowly drops to 1 1/2 psi then wants to stall there is where it got better it does not stall but it sure wants to if i feather the ga