Air conditioning
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Air conditioning
Posted: August 21 2006 08:23 PM
 
Chuck Lashley (aka sixguns) [ View ] [ Sixguns99ht@aol.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
Woodland, Washington

 Enjoy the Ride
 
Can some of you that have been there,done that,offer some wise words for a first time builder. Today my wife and I were sitting in the garage thinking of what we have done and still need to do on the project and decided to keep cool in the 36 LaSalle were building. I think I want to add sheetmetal and blend into the current dash for some vents to mount in, and not go the underdash system that will look like an added under the dash system. I only have a Vintage Air catolog to look at. Thanks
 
 
Comments
 
Posted by gman0046  -  08/02/2004 12:57 PM
Rodsnhawgs, your right about Vintage Air. Mine works great initially until the evaporator ice's up. Then air flow drops off and you can no longer run at full cool. My next installation will be something other than Vintage.
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by johns56  -  08/02/2004 01:50 PM
as long as we are talking air i have a queston. why can't you use a gm, dodge ect unit out of a junkyard. oops i mean a recycle and rejuvination yard.
johns56 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] phoenix, Arizona
 
Posted by gman0046  -  08/02/2004 02:31 PM

I don't see why you couldn't use a recycled unit if you have the room. What the after market units have going for them is the compactness of the units, plus you usually buy them new, and they come with everything you need for the installation which is not difficult. Your looking at just about $1000 for a complete after market set up.

gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by gman0046  -  08/02/2004 03:06 PM
Shine, is Old Air the outfit in Cowtown? Why don't you go into the installation of A/C systems? I might be doing something wrong and besides I might learn something.
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by bigdude  -  08/02/2004 04:26 PM
Ok now you got me blabbin. I had one of those under the dash add ons that the car dealers used to install on customers cars, and that thing would freeze us out of my old 37chevy c-dan. It was blowing snow out of it coming back from l-ville in 94.
resident know it all [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Three Rivers, Michigan Charter Member since January 2004
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/02/2004 05:35 PM

an underdash unit is like afterburners. no loss thru ducting , straight out of the coil. same unit my dad had in his mustang. yep it would make snow cones.

dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by rodsnhawgs  -  08/02/2004 03:49 PM
Shine is absolutely right about cycling the compressor - that's why the tech guys recommend not running the thermostat on full cool. It tricks the system into thinking it's satisfied the cooling requirements of the occupants, thereby cycling the compressor. The problem is that the occupants are not fully cooled because the system is poorly designed. Again, let me state that a big ad budget does not necessarily mean the best product. Sad to say, we see this time and time again in our hobby. Many of these street rod manufacturers are selling boat loads of products based not on dollars spent on quality but on slick ad campaigns. Thank goodness we have a place like this where they can be exposed publicly.
rodsnhawgs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Saint albans, West Virginia Charter Member since August 2001
 
Posted by gman0046  -  08/02/2004 05:57 PM
One thing nobody's mentioned yet is R12 vs. R134. I can't help but think R12 cools better, but unfortunately costs signifigantly more. Any thoughts?
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/02/2004 02:53 PM

well i'll get jumped on here but i prefer old air products. heres why, they work like your fact air. they PULL air thru the a coil instead of trying to preasureize the box first to force air out. they have twice the size fan . they dont take all the room behind your dash. one big prob with air is having them installed by someone who does'nt understand a/c. i wont go into that cause it takes too long. i'm running out of pennys.

dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/02/2004 05:28 PM

air volume is the trick to a/c. the sole purpose of the a coil is to condense moisture from the air. the most important thing on the interiors im my cars is to seal it. any outside air exchange is more humidity to remove. give me air volume first, it will take care of the rest. did you vac your new car really good? do you take a pet with you? air exchange ! ok now tell me where i messed up.

dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by bigdude  -  08/02/2004 06:02 PM
Ya,I think the r-12 was a drier cold and cooled faster.
resident know it all [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Three Rivers, Michigan Charter Member since January 2004
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/02/2004 06:13 PM
134 performs the same as r12 except at idle. it creates more head presure and heat with less freon. down the road it seems to be just fine. no complaints.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by gman0046  -  08/02/2004 06:36 PM
How cold is cold? My 2003 Chevy truck with a thermometer in the A/C duct goes to 50 degrees. My streetrod, with Vintage Air, R134 what would be an acceptable reading as I haven't checked it yet? Is 50 degrees OK?
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by maniac  -  08/02/2004 05:40 PM

I have an Old Air unit, Its OK thats all I'll say. everyone has their own version of cool. This unit does OK, not great but I like being COLD.



The funny thing is when you buy a unit for a house the first thing they want to know is how big is it, and then they tell you a size unit (tons) or BTU's



Ever ask one of these vendors about BTU's? You will get double talk they know nothing about this. Will it cool my sedan delivery? Of course they say, yeah well guess what, It don't Hate to say it but your on your own with this one. Mainly because everyones "cold" feeling varies. Some people are cold when its 50 degrees and some aren't when its 50 below. Know what I mean?



By the way the Old Air unit is 10 or so years old and no problems with it, nice people to deal with too.

maniac [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bethel, Connecticutt
 
Posted by Rods & Customs by Leon  -  08/01/2004 11:18 PM
If you have a Vintage Air Catalog you will see that they offer several nice looking vents, Adding to your dash is something that can be done to fit your taste but it`s really not needed, I dont know ecactly what your question is, But I have been a Vintage Air Dealer/Installer for many years and I can assure you that you will be happy with their Units, I have never had anyone have a problem with one, Also if you do decide on the Vintage Air, I would like to say that the GenII Units cool you down in the worst of conditions.

When you get ready to purchase your unit,Let me know and I might can help you save a few bucks......

One thing you might want to remember, Dont start installing anything under you dash untill you have everything thats going under it, Pre fit it all and then take it back out to do the final assy, It gets very tight under there sometimes
Rods & Customs by Leon [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Highlands, Texas Charter Member since May 2004
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/02/2004 02:45 PM

gman, i've had the icing problem too. if you cycle the comp. more it will stay defrosted.

dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by eblack36  -  08/03/2004 08:18 AM
I could not let this go on any more, I love my Vintage air units. I have one in a 57 210 wagon that does an excellent job of cooling the car down, everything fit and works great plus it blows air out of the vents at 36 degrees. I also have a gen II unit in my 36 pontiac sedan and it will freeze you out on a hot day, I came back across Kansas after Pueblo three years ago with 100 degree outside temp had the unit on bi level operation and had to stop and put socks on to warm up my feet. I looks to me as if the biggest problem that people have with the aftermarket units is making sure that everything is tight and pulling a good vacum. Both of my units pulled 29 plus inches of vac and stayed there for a couple of hours at least before I charged them on a hot day. I did have a unit from a different company that you could not feel the air 6 inches away from the vents. I will not name them, but they are no longer in business,
eblack36 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Lansing, Kansas
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/03/2004 08:23 AM

i'm about to install an old air unit in the 55 as soon as i get the motor in. old air is in ft worth. i had a shop near them back in 91. gman, 50 degrees is ok for a new truck blowing good but i shoot for at least 45 in my rods. the black 37 was blowing 38 degrees out the vents when it left here. it does'nt have much ducting. i brought all three vent straight out the dash. cooling a convert is tough with any unit. air leaks kill a/c. until you remove the humidity it aint gonna be cool. be carfull not to overcharge, your vent temp will rise if you do.

dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by eblack36  -  08/03/2004 09:28 AM

I bought one of the gauges that they sell at the parts store that measures the charge and try to keep it where the instructions say to set it. I am kind of dumb on stuff like this so I try to read the instructions. The only problem that I have had with my vintage air unit in the 36 is the braket that holds the motor in after 3 years cracked just before I left for springfield this year, I emailed them before I left home and left my cell phone number as I wanted to buy the braket, they called me back within 2 hours and sent the unit for warranty which I did not expect. Customer service is one of the things to me that sell the product for repeat business, ads might get you the first time, but customer service is what brings you back for more. I have not used Old Air Products but I have heard nothing but good about them.

eblack36 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Lansing, Kansas
 
Posted by orphans2  -  08/02/2004 02:47 PM

Hawgs, sorry to hear of your problems with VinAir. All of my family members in Florida use Vintage Air and have never had any problems. I have Airtique in my streetrod and have no complaints. It has been in there for about 14 years. I have another system in my 57, which I will not name as things could get nasty. I had problems with it initially but not in the last 4 years. I will not buy another one again. I have heard some good things about Hot Rod Air, but have no first hand experience with them.

orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by orphans2  -  08/02/2004 11:23 AM
In addition to Vintage Air, also check out the under the dash enclosure with hidden air vents as marketed and sold by Rod Doors, inc. Works well with a variety of a/c units, not just Vintage Air. and looks good when matched with you interior colors and fabrics.
orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by rodsnhawgs  -  08/02/2004 11:41 AM

Hey Sixguns: this is a topic that has had many a conversation...here's my take. You have to think of an HVAC system in your car just like you would in your house. It needs to be sealed and insulated VERY WELL. Be sure to provide a path for return air back to the fan (i.e., take this into consideration when sealing under the dash). Be sure you get the proper size unit for your vehicle. Make it servicable.



Now, here's my problem w/ aftermarket HVAC units. Without naming names, big ad budgets don't necessarily translate into good products. Do your homework. There is a certain big company that I've owned 3 times (sorry Leon) but will not buy again. Component failures, sealed boxes that require sawing or splitting to service internals, undersized fans, inadequate cooling, etc. All the units have the same characteristics and even their tech guys recommend you not run the thermostat on "full cool" because the evaporators freeze up. Now you can tell by my answer, I've done everything possible to make sure my cars cool - I must be an oddball 'cause lots of folks talk about how good these guys are - but I'm being very honest with you. Bottom line: use your head, get lots of info from lots of companies - there are a number of choices. Even so, aftermarket HVAC just plain doesn't work as well as Detroit's factory units - at least that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. If you don't believe me on all this, check out the new forum "Where's Big Al?"

rodsnhawgs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Saint albans, West Virginia Charter Member since August 2001
 
Posted by rodsnhawgs  -  08/02/2004 07:22 PM
Air Volume is, in fact, the key. When you talk to a knowledgable home HVAC guy, he will size your unit, ducting, return air, etc. so that you have X number of complete air exchanges per hour. If you don't have the volume in your car unit to exchange the air, you're gonna get hot. If you don't have the air volume to pass across the evaporator to exchange the cabin heat w/ the cold refrigerant, the evap is gonna freeze up. Most aftermarket units just don't have the capacity to move the air. But, when you talk to the tech guys, they will blame everything in the world on poor performance except the fact that their unit is a bad design. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!! 134 is no problem. I have converted my black '78 Malibu to it and have had no complaints whatsoever - take note that this is a factory-engineered unit.
rodsnhawgs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Saint albans, West Virginia Charter Member since August 2001
 
Posted by JAWS  -  08/21/2006 08:23 PM

40 degrees or so is the temp to shoot for. Some depending on duct lenght will get around 45 and others high 30's.



I don't care for the fact that the vintage air systems you have to destroy the "box" to get at the internals. Some problems with the temp switches and other switches, but I guess thats gonna happen with anyones stuff. I have yet to see one cool the inside of a large car, pickups yes and small coupes yes, but larger vehicles it is nessesary to aim the vents to hit the occupants. Just my 2 cents, and I'm certainly no builder or expert.-Brant

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by johns56  -  08/03/2004 10:03 AM
i never heard of old air, they got any catalouges, lit. to read up on. do they make something the 56. ?
johns56 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] phoenix, Arizona
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  08/03/2004 10:29 AM
they make a direct fit for your 56, using exsisting holes and your fact controls.www.oldairproducts.com
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
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