Spark Plugs
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Spark Plugs
Posted: June 30 2005 08:30 AM
 
Robert Sutton (aka orphans2) [ View ] [ rsutton57@hotmail.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia
(717) 515-5272
 
Been having little problems lately with my previously trusty 350. A while back I had fouling problems with number 1 plug, so I pulled them today to check. Electrodes and insulators were greyest off-white with no oil or soot deposits, also seems to not to be running too hot as insulators are not pitted or burnt. However, threads were slightly wet with oil, not dripping wet, just oily. Number one plug a little more than the others. Is this amount oiling acceptable or am I looking at an overhaul down the road? Block is a 1970 -76 350, heads are older double hump fuelie heads (2.02) but have not checked what series. Plugs are straight and I use Champion RJ12C which have a 3/8 inch reach. These seem to be the best plugs for my usage. Have tried other plugs with poor results. Water temp usually runs 180 to 200, 210/215 in traffic. Hope this is not too much data or too petty of a question. Thought I asked here before moving on to next problem area (backfiring). Thanks.
 
 
Comments
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/26/2005 11:57 PM
Thanks JC. The # 1 plug fouled real bad last year on the way to and from Charlotte. Afterwards I changed the plugs back to the RJ12C's and replaced all of the wires with Taylor spiro-pro 8mm. Haven't use the car for any long trips since, but locally the plugs haven't been fouling. Had a major backfire thru carb several days ago complete with lotsa smoke pouring out of the air cleaner horns. Scare the beejeesus out of me at the time. The distributor is a GM HEI, going to check that next, and then head for the carb. Might have been one of Shine's dirt dobbers in the carb, since the car started and ran better after the explosion. Getting too old for this nerve rattling.
orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by JAWS  -  06/27/2005 12:23 AM

Greyish white is a lean burn, perfect is a tanish color, black being rich and sooty to boot.



The fouling of the plug last year may be a fluke, the backfire is another lean condition symptom. When did it backfire, under what throttle load and temp of motor? Are you noticing any oil usage? If so, how much in how long of a period. Not to worry, your car is not a daily driver, so after sitting for a spell oil will settle and fuel will drain into the oil after your last shut off. My point is that it only takes a little while for stuff to reseat and reseal, minor oil on the plugs is normal, espesially for a street rod. What your seeing on your plugs is residue from the fuel acting as a solvent on the prieviously burned fuel/oil mix in the combustion chamber, being forced out around the threads.-Brant

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/27/2005 10:05 AM
Brant, thanks for the info. Starting to feel better about not having to decide between a rebuild and a crate. About the backfire, only happened once so far, during ignition after car had sat for about 3 hours following a short ride (less than a 1/2 hour). Peiodically on start-up car acts as if it has the drive heaves. But starts after several attempts. Possibly too much gas from fuel pump. Car has always had oil consumption, about 1 quart every 500 miles on long runs. Short runs yield less miles to the quart, probably not a good indicator since car spends more time siting off or idling than actually moving. Does smoke a little on start-up but not after warm-up, most likely smoke due to excess gas from combination of electric fuel pump and choke. Got same problem with the 57 Olds with same combination. Neither car gets as much use as I would like, about once a week at best. Never had a fouling problem until the Charlotte trip. Shop in NC replace all plugs and did a compression check. Compression was good to very good in all cylinders. They replaced the Denso plugs with AC's for a 350 truck motor. Fouling occurred again on the way home. Number 1 was completely fouled to the point of having to use a metal nail file to clean it (one unhappy wife). Cleaned plug and switched with plug #2 which was good. After arriving home I changed plugs again with the rj12c's, been good since.
orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by REBORN55  -  06/27/2005 11:10 PM
What carb are you running. If Holley, backfire may have blown a power valve. Having start up problem when warm or just after sitting for a few days. May have a little heat soak when warm. Just curious.
Ken [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] De soto, Illinois
 
Posted by JAWS  -  06/28/2005 12:21 AM
Explain dry heaves. Do you mean surging ' cause that would be lean too. What did the plug look like when you say "fouled". Was it wet?
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/28/2005 12:51 AM

Ken, running an Edelbrock Performer 600 (1406) with electric choke. Start up varies, some days there are no problems. Usually on start up after sitting for several days. Never backfired before, when it did engine had been run several hours before. Usually after starting and warm up, no problems on later restarts.

orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by REBORN55  -  06/28/2005 08:47 AM
If it is only that one cylinder--may be where your oil consumption is. Could be a weak oil ring or valve guide/seal. May have had some dirt in the carb--just need to drive it some more. Need a LONG cruise.
Ken [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] De soto, Illinois
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/28/2005 12:13 PM
Thanks guys for all of the advice and comments. I will check out a couple of things (distributor, carb, etc.) this week. Then I have to put both cars on life support for a couple of weeks since I have to go out of town. If every thing checks out maybe I'll drive down to Louisiana in August for the Two State Rodder event.. That's a 1200 mile one way trip, that should be enough to clear out the dirt dobbers. If not I could always take a "4Sale" sign along just in case.
orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by ahotrod33  -  06/28/2005 03:49 PM
O2--you can use my of sign if you want..........
ahotrod33 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Glen Mills, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since June 2003
 
Posted by carpro1946  -  06/26/2005 10:19 PM
The oil sounds normal. If it has started backfireing and trying to foul plugs check the wire on that cyl, the rotor and especially the electrode inside the cap. They will get a hard scale on them and cause misfire. If all of that looks good your carb may have picked up a little trash under the needle and seat and be flooding a little bit.
carpro1946 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] hebron, Maryland Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by ahotrod33  -  06/30/2005 08:30 AM
O2--Still have the sign from when I sold my dear ol 34 coupe. The York coverage you sent in was great, and I didn't notice me in the pics cause I was too dazzled by the pair of Mopar sedans sitting there.
ahotrod33 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Glen Mills, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since June 2003
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/28/2005 01:03 AM

Brant, dry heaves may have been bad term. More like a dry cough with a hiccup. Hard to describe. Noise usually only happens when starting after sitting for one or more days. Occurs when turning the ignition key to start and then stopping when it doesn't start. Sounds as if the engine is going to catch, but doesn't. Almost like an internal backlash. Sometimes you got to spin the starter several times for the motor to catch, other times one tap of the key starts it. I thought it might be that the timing is just not right, or the electric fuel pump ain't delivering as it should. But once started, it runs good and later starts are usually without problem. Shortly after the backfire occurred, I tried to start it and it fired right up, no problem, even seemed to run smoother than usual.



Fouled plug appeared to be wet deposits but actually deposits were dry and baked on. Had to clean them with a metal nail file. Electrode gap was bridged so plug couldn't fire. Haven't had the same problem since I changed back to the original plugs. My guess was that problem was between the plug and the usage. Long trip, hiway speeds, maybe not the right temp plug for the occasion. Plugs were supposed to be equivalent of the Champion RJ12C's that were in it when I got it. Might still have one around. When I got the RJ12C plugs, the guy at NAPA thought they were for a lawn mover. ;-) Maybe I should put the 350 on my garden tractor, and get something else for the 34.

orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by JAWS  -  06/29/2005 01:22 AM

It almost sounds like two separate issues. Yes, the back fire can be caused by a lean condition, but you said it came as you were turning the key off. Sounds like a ignition/ electrical problem along with a lean carb to boot. I've had trouble with the edelbrock, the symptoms you describe about hard to start first thing and easy after warmup is typical. Also sometimes they will vary fuel metering from one extreme to the other. I've had them apart and tuned and flowed put back on the car. They'll run fine for awhile and then all of the sudden stalling and backfiring and then flooding out.



I am more curious about the ignition, what are you running for and ignition system? Check to see that you are getting full volts at the coil when cranking. I had one today that had a bad ignition switch.-Brant

An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by orphans2  -  06/29/2005 11:15 AM

Brant - backfire occurred on start, not shut down. And I agree, I think it is two seperate issues. Ignition is standard GM HEI with coil on top. Will check distributor and coil for problems. Might consider replacing the carb with something else, but have always had good luck with Edelbrock.



Carpro - will clean carb and refresh the air filters. Air filter unit has twin filter K& N, permanent filters.



Bigdude - have tried different breeds of standard plugs, but the Champion rj12c has been the best. I know it is not a modern plug, but car runs will with it. Haven't had any fouling problems since changing back to the rj12c. But, I will check to see if I can get something in copper or platinum to match size ,style and heat range. Most part places near me haven't got a clue when it comes to plugs, might have to go to a speed center for correct parts.



Fitzwell - planning on it. Have reservations in Hammond. Got to be in New Orleans the following week for a meeting, so I plan to start at the Coonass. Don't know yet if I will be in the street rod or not. In any case I plan to attend. I'll send you my cell phone number, be a pleasure to meet you.



Ahotrod33 - you got a sign?? What for?? Did you see your self in the York pictures? Can't miss that hat. Accidently got one of my bride in there, I hope she don't see it otherwise I will be in deep doo-doo.



Big THANKS to everyone for the help and comments. Got a lot to do on the car now. Got a couple more questions about a new intake manifold but will save that for when I return from vacation.

orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001
 
Posted by fitzwell   -  06/29/2005 09:20 AM
orphans....you gonna be at the Coonass soiree?????
normal?? Normal is a cycle on a washing machine [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] benbrook, Texas
 
Posted by carpro1946  -  06/29/2005 08:19 AM
If the car ran fine before, you probally need to remove the carb, clean it real good, put new filters on and it will run fine. Then chase any other problems you may have with it.
carpro1946 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] hebron, Maryland Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by bigdude  -  06/29/2005 09:07 AM
Orphans,I wasnt going to comment but have to. Upgrade your spark plugs to either Autolite copper or platinum. Because of the shitty gas we get nowadays,you need a better plug and these work good for me. Ive had trouble in the past with detonation problems and not getting a good 'burn',and that cleared up alot of the problems. I also raced for years and thats what I had the best performance with.
resident know it all [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Three Rivers, Michigan Charter Member since January 2004
 
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