Chunkies in the gas tank
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Chunkies in the gas tank
Posted: August 18 2008 02:43 PM
 
Eric Hibbs (aka 31tudor) [ View ] [ ehibbs@nuteltech.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
St. George, Utah
(435) 668-1401
 Eric Hibbs
 
I knew going in that I'd have quite a bit of maintenance using the stock Model A gas tank, but this is ridiculous.


I could see down in the tank that there was a lot of scale and crap sitting on the bottom of the tank so I ran a piece of hose from the petcock of the tank out to the ground, filled the tank with water and started scrubbing. The only thing I could fit through the filler neck was a 1" paint brush taped to a paint stick. I scrubbed and scrubbed and got as much as I could out, figuring I'd done a pretty good job but knowing all I could reach was about one square foot of the bottom. I scrubbed until the water ran clean for about 30 minutes AFTER scrubbing.


I let the tank dry out good and hooked the fuel line back up. I installed one of those little fuel filters that have the brass mesh type screen that you can remove and clean. Although the filter is doing a good job (and I'm getting really good at emptying it) there seems to be a bigger problem.


I think (not sure, can't see it) there is a large chunky (or more than one) in the gas tank that moves around the bottom until it hits the opening. Here's why I'm thinking this...


I drive the car around for about a mile (sometimes two or three) and the car runs out of fuel. Leaving the petcock open I can pull the filter, clean the screen, and fuel doesn't come running down the line. This is all below the level of the fuel tank so it should --in theory-- run right out.


At the risk of being the butt of many jokes, the only way to get the fuel flowing down the line again is to literally blow through the gas line until I can hear bubbles coming through the tank. Hey! It ain't Windex and steel wool, okay??? I hook the fuel filter up again and continue cruising for another one to three miles.


Okay, the fuel tank was welded in place and the gaps were bondo'ed before I bought the car, so removing it isn't an option. I don't see how I could coat the inside of the tank without removing it from the car. I could pull the fuel gauge out of the dash and work from there too, but I don't think that will make much difference either.


I doubt the crap in the tank is magnetic so I don't think I'll be able to pull it out that way either.


So what to do? I don't want to run a deuce tank and need all of the interior room I can get so I really need to run the original tank. Anybody have any good ideas???
 
Comments
 
Posted by rat fink  -  08/18/2008 02:52 PM
Hey there Tudor........have you tried to find a place in your area that rebuilds rads.....or repairs fuel tanks?

Sounds like a good soaking in a hot chemical bath should clean up your "chunky"problem.
KEN COPE [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] RIGA, LATVIA, Other Charter Member since March 2008
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 02:58 PM
Fink, that would be okay but the tank can't be removed from the car. I'm trying to come up with a creative idea to clean/seal it still in the car with the tiny bit of access I have.
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by MOREorless  -  08/18/2008 02:58 PM
Would a shop vacuum work? Or a commercial vacuum.
MOREorless [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] DEARBORN, Michigan
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 03:02 PM
Hooking up a Shop Vac has been discussed but sucking up stuff from a fuel tank with an electric vacuum sounds pretty damned dangerous to me!!!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 03:03 PM
Maybe I could talk my ex-wife into doing it? I'd have to protect the car really good though, wouldn't want whale blubber on the paint!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by hotrod37  -  08/18/2008 03:10 PM
Isn't the pitcock under the fill, maybe drain the gas and put water in then drain out through the pitcock until it stops then run your vacuum nozzle in and suck out your "chunkies" each time until it appears to be free of them. Garage vacs will suck up water. May want to fill completely with water to eliminate any gas flumes.
hotrod37 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Morgantown, Indiana
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 03:17 PM
Yeah Mike, it is. I've also though about filling the tank with water and sucking it out that way, but was still worried about the fumes. I figure the water will get sucked into the canister but the fumes will still be escaping through the motor.

Maybe I could use an electric fuel pump with a piece of hose stuck through the filler neck to pick up the chunky???
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by 30 A pickup  -  08/18/2008 03:31 PM
Eric, Try a strong magnet on a paint paddle. You would be surprized what they will pick up, non metal. Good luck also.


Lynn
30 A pickup [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Cowpens, South Carolina
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 03:49 PM
Les, thanks for the phone call and all the great ideas! Interesting, after looking at Kinsler's site they say NEVER use a porous copper filter like I have been using. I can imagine all of the contamination that still makes it into the carb.


After Les and I talked for a few minutes I think I'm going to rig up something to the bottom petcock and push water UP through the garden hose, letting the water and chunkies come out of the filler neck. This way I can vary the pressure and flow rate accordingly. Anything that floats should come out with low pressure/volume, and stuff that doesn't float should come out under high pressure/volume.


Whatta y'all think?


Lynn, I have a 1" donut shaped magnet somewhere. I think I'll wrap a piece of small gauge wire around it and stick it in the tank. Hopefully after a short drive most of the stuff wandering around the tank will be attached to the magnet. Thanks for the thought!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by da34guy  -  08/18/2008 03:49 PM
Opps- Sumthin ya never told me!

Never realized the tank was welded in.

1 Solution. Drain and flush many times--- Cut the bottom of the tank out

Clean it, and weld it back up.

Hate to give ya that advice, but probably the only way yer gonna get it real clean and all the crap out of it.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by MOREorless  -  08/18/2008 03:50 PM
I thought with all the rinsing and draining you have done there would be no fumes. I wonder if one of those natural gas sniffers would work to detect gasoline fumes? Fire Depts. also use them. Do you know any firemen? Or gas company people? I left a phone message with a friend / retired Battalion Fire Chief and asked him. I'll let you know when I hear from him. Im a retired firefighter but I never used a sniffer. The chief and his driver always used them. I only saw them used for detecting natural gas fumes.
MOREorless [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] DEARBORN, Michigan
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/18/2008 04:02 PM
Cutting, cleaning, welding would certainly do the trick... BUT MY PRETTY PAINTED DASHBOARD!!! LMAO


Don, thanks AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN! I wouldn't be driving it if it weren't for your GENEROUS help!!! I've got 42.5 miles on the odometer as of last night... and about 15 fuel filter cleanings, LOL. That 327 is an ANIMAL and will turn those 29" tires through the 3.00 gears with ease! GREAT advise on gear selection!


Loren, I don't think those sniffers work for gasoline. Besides, the scent is strong enough that it's easy to detect the source, but please let me know what you find out.
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by 29robert  -  08/18/2008 04:29 PM
Hey Eric. Exactly the same thing happened to my car when I was putting around before blowing it apart to hot rod it. It would just stop from fuel starvation, I'd let it sit a while, the fuel would trickle into the fuel line and I could drive a bit farther. I wound up cutting out the bottom (not the dash face) of the tank so I could use the space for electrinics. When I opened up the tank, the entire inside was scaling and I don't think it would have ever stopped. Maybe what Don said will work the best or maybe you can cut out the bottom and install a fuel cell of some sort in the empty cavity instead of trying to stop the flaking. Seems to me, that once the interior of the tank is rusting, it will be hard to stop, and what if it actually rusted right through the old tank and leaked in your lap. No more kids! It's so easy for that tiny hole in the bottom of the tank to get blocked (like in the middle of nowhere on your way to Del Mar). I'm not even sure that original tiny hole is large enough to provide sufficient fuel flow rate for a V8. I also don't like having all that fuel between me and the engine. Let us know what ya decide.
29robert [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] La Verne, California Charter Member since November 2004
 
Posted by protruck69orange  -  08/18/2008 04:30 PM
you can rent a air powered vaccum cleaner from a commercial equipment rental equipment, i have had good luck cleaning tanks using liquid plummer, mix with about 2 gallons of water let sit overnight, vaccum out, use air vaccum tape a 3/8 or 1/2" hose to vaccum cleaner move all around on tank bottom
protruck69orange [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] kountze, Texas
 
Posted by blade58  -  08/18/2008 04:37 PM
McMasteriCarr has air powered vaccumsCatalog #112 pg.1924 3 to choose from
blade58 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] apopka, Florida Charter Member since January 2008
 
Posted by DavyJ  -  08/18/2008 04:47 PM
mcMaster Carr carries vacuum generators, we use them at work on our robots. they are fairly reasonable, about $200 3/8" . I would try the magnet first, taped to the end of a piece of garden hose while running the air hose inserted at 45 degrees blowing out through the last few feet, to create a vacuum.
Still driving the wife's car, cause I am slow. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Niagara Falls, Canada Charter Member since February 2005
 
Posted by bigdude  -  08/18/2008 04:48 PM
Turn that car upside down and shake it! Had the same problem once alsoused kwik polley in it took care of it. I also welded up a tank that had been washed several times and blown out with air and set in the sun----ended up twice its size with little pieces of rust still embedded in my left hand.
resident know it all [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Three Rivers, Michigan Charter Member since January 2004
 
Posted by oilmanpat  -  08/18/2008 06:10 PM
I was going to suggest strapping it to a small ferriswheel and fillin the tank with rocks. If it were mine,I'd probably try the magnet route . There are small earth magnets that are 5mmX10mm Dia that you could fasten to a piece of hose so you could get to the sides.
oilmanpat [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Warsaw, Illinois Charter Member since August 2007
 
Posted by blade58  -  08/18/2008 07:48 PM
You could place a magnet on tank at its lowest point away from the outlet like they do on oil pans
blade58 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] apopka, Florida Charter Member since January 2008
 
Posted by timkins  -  08/18/2008 09:05 PM
Have you tried inserting a piece of chain with a piece of rope attached and then twirl the rope to try and knock the rust off and then flush it. Just my 2 cents.
timkins [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Fishers, New York Charter Member since March 2002
 
Posted by kylew  -  08/18/2008 09:40 PM
There are a couple good recipes with muriatic acid I've used but they require the tank be shaken. I hate to be a party pooper, but...When I removed the tank from my 30 model there were vertical baffles in it with very small openings, so it will be tough to get rid of all the scale and rust coming to the outlet. You can cut the bottom out to clean and then weld it back together with a new bottom (if there's anything to weld to). The tank has to be charged with a proper concentration of inert gas during welding to avoid the explosion like BigDude described, so be careful. Is there room somewhere between the rails for a shallow tank that will hold 10 gallons or so? It would have to be fabricated and a tight fit but you'd have a clean tank in a much safer location.
kylew [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Charleston, West Virginia
 
Posted by da34guy  -  08/18/2008 09:45 PM
Eric---Kylew is right, I forgot about the baffles-

You know me --tell it like it is- only failsafe solution--

Cut the bottom out.

No big deal to repaint the bottom of the tank after it's welded back in.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by kylew  -  08/18/2008 10:25 PM
If you decide to cut - go slow. The baffles are flanged and welded to the front, bottom, and back of the tank and made from the same steel as the rest of the car. I think you will have to remove the bottom in pieces to separate it from the baffles and then make a new bottom. It is easy to damage the remainder of the tank if you aren't heads-up doing this. [Don't ask how i know, but this is how i got a 32 style dash in mine ] Cool A-bone, I miss mine.
kylew [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Charleston, West Virginia
 
Posted by q1ap  -  08/18/2008 10:26 PM
Just how much MPG are you getting between gas filter blow jobs?;-) Don's right the only way to be sure is to slice and dice it.
q1ap [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. Augustine, Florida
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/19/2008 12:34 AM
Oh I KNEW someone would have to say it! Thanks q1ap, but I'm surprised 100 other guys didn't beat you to that!


I never even considered that there might be baffles in the tank! CRAP! Since I'm not planning any long trips I can live with it the way it is... for now. I drove about 15 miles tonight without a problem. Maybe the big chunkies have broken down enough that I can finish getting the little chunkies out with each filter cleaning.


I'm not looking forward to cutting the tank open and removing the baffles but I may have to end up doing just that. Tanks just don't get better by running fuel through them, do they? I expect it will get better, but will ultimately have to be opened up, properly cleaned and sealed.


Thanks to all for the input! Just sorting out the bugs a few at a time now and driving with a HUGE smile on my face!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by DaveHughes  -  08/19/2008 09:54 AM
I dont have any ideas that havent already been mentioned-BUT- I will bet you now have the happiest fuel filter in town....
DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio
 
Posted by da34guy  -  08/19/2008 10:24 AM
Eric-- Kinda sound similar to the 41

Bite the bullet buddy, cut it open.

You and I both know, ya want to drive it more than 15 miles at a time.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by 29robert  -  08/19/2008 10:31 AM
Isn't Del Mar more than 15 miles away?
29robert [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] La Verne, California Charter Member since November 2004
 
Posted by da34guy  -  08/19/2008 10:56 AM
Hey Robert--- He ain't got a back seat in it yet so he can carry 2 gross fuel filters.

I think I'll design a quick change(fuel filter) set up for him.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by q1ap  -  08/19/2008 11:12 AM
Don, make up some fuel filters that go on with velcro!
q1ap [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. Augustine, Florida
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/19/2008 11:27 AM
I could use a couple of petcocks and make a Y fitting so I could change the filters while blasting down the highway. And you though talking on the cell phone was dangerous?! LMAO


Of course how do I inject air to blow the chunky on the bottom of the tank out of the way? How about a valve stem and I'll keep a compressor tank in the back next to the fuel filters!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by q1ap  -  08/19/2008 11:55 AM
Eric, enough...... stop saying blow! Here's the solution, get a blow up doll in the passenger seat and fill her full of gas(oline) run a hose out the window to the fuel pump, problem solved and you get to go in the HOV lane too!
q1ap [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. Augustine, Florida
 
Posted by cr55  -  08/19/2008 12:12 PM
Good idea qlap, but some unsuspecting rodder would probably run off with her!.....CR
I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  08/19/2008 12:42 PM
Bwah ha ha ha!!! At least I wouldn't need a fuel gauge, when she's deflated I'll know I'm on empty!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by DaveHughes  -  08/19/2008 01:16 PM
Yea-I like it but I see a problem -- If you decide to pull over and have a little fun DO NOT have a cigarette afterwards..
DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio
 
Posted by cr55  -  08/19/2008 01:27 PM
Gives "blow" a whole new meaning!.....CR
I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware
 
Posted by Starfire  -  08/19/2008 01:34 PM
5 three liter bottles of Classic Coke will do the trick. Remember the school experiment of putting a small nail and a penny into a container containing Coke and letting it sit for a few days. Didn't take the Coke long to eat the nail completely up and work on the penny to the point it was barely recognizable as a penny. Fairly large chunks of thin rust scale wouldn't stand a chance against being in Coke for a week. Which brings us to a serious question....... Why the heck would we want to drink something like that?
Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas
 
Posted by 30 A pickup  -  08/19/2008 02:41 PM
When we were coming home from Louisville this year, a buddy was having fuel problems. He thought it was trash in the tank. He stopped & got a electric pump, two 5 gallon gas cans, set them in the bed of the pickup, ran a line around the passenger side, tied it to the door handle & mirrow, under the hood & to the carb. Made it home, about 120 miles.

Wound up not being trash, it was a bad mechanical pump. Boy streetrodding is fun!!!!


Lynn
30 A pickup [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Cowpens, South Carolina
 
Posted by Starfire  -  08/19/2008 03:32 PM
So much for logical diagnosis of a problem! Darn lucky he didn't fry himself and the truck with a jack leg solution like that.
Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas
 
Posted by meangene  -  08/19/2008 03:34 PM
you know i'm no expert but you boys aren't ritehehe
even a blind hog finds a acorn [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Labadie, Missouri
 
Posted by 29robert  -  08/19/2008 04:33 PM
Hey Don. Without a back seat (I know he's got the front seats sittin way back and lookin out the rear windows), wouldn't it be pretty easy to mount a flat S.S. tank on the rear floor and bypass the original tank altogether. A new rear floor could eventually be framed and built over the floor tank. Course, he'll then have to address the problem of how to fill the tank. That one bothered me for a long time. Maybe one of those exposed racing caps centered under the center tail light. Anything can be done for a price. Right?
29robert [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] La Verne, California Charter Member since November 2004
 
Posted by da34guy  -  08/19/2008 05:26 PM
Great idea Robert.

Sure would solve a lot of his problem

Could even do a gas door like you did.

Eri--- Ya listening ?????????????????????????/
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by 29robert  -  08/19/2008 05:38 PM