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Jerry Kjensrud (aka kjensrud) [ View ] [ jerry@prober.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ] Sherwood, Oregon (503) 708-8569

I have a 69 Firebird with a crate 502 chevrolet motor in it. It runs at 226 degrees after it warms up. The thermostat is a Robert Shaw 180 degree high flow. It starts out cold and reaches 180 in about 10 minutes. The temperature reaches 180 and then creeps up to 190 degrees and then you can see a drop as the thermostat kicks in. It then just slowly creeps up and up and stablizes around 210 before it goes up more to over 220 degrees. On a hour run the temperature is at above 226 or higher. I have another car with a 502 in it with a standard brass works radiator and it stays at aound 190 almost all of the time. My setup is: -502 crate with Accel DFI fuel injection. -B Cool big block radiator with A/C condenser on front -Permacool 3000 cfm fan with a shroud. Setup for pulling. The shroud has four holes in each corner for vacuum issues. -Turbo 400 with 9 inch 3.50 rear end.

Comments

Posted by cr55  -  07/05/2008 07:14 PM Sounds like the radiator is too small or else you may have something blocking the airflow. Air lock maybe?.........CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/05/2008 07:30 PM use a thermal gage to validate the temp first. i have never had a heat problem with a bcool . dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/05/2008 08:25 PM I flushed the system and refilled without the Thermostat in the engine, installed thermostat and then filled to top. I don't think I have an air pocket. The radiators was recommended by B Cool as the correct one for the 502/Firebird/Camaro car. I used both a IR gun and a TC to validate temperature. Also the Accel has a built in sensor that matches the gauge temperature. I also put Evans anti boil in the readiator because I was always boiling over when I stopped. Now it doesn't boil but it still gets hot. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by srodder39  -  07/05/2008 11:11 PM Check the vacum advance the timing may not be advancing which will cause it to run hot. srodder39 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] santa fe, Texas   Posted by Red's Place Custom & Restoration  -  07/06/2008 12:07 AM pull a compression leak down check to see if you have a head gasket seping. Could cause it to run hot but not be bad enough to get water in the oil . Red's Place Custom & Restoration [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Charlotte, North Carolina   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/06/2008 12:07 AM I flushed the system and refilled without the Thermostat in the engine, installed thermostat and then filled to top. I don't think I have an air pocket. The radiators was recommended by B Cool as the correct one for the 502/Firebird/Camaro car. I used both a IR gun and a TC to validate temperature. Also the Accel has a built in sensor that matches the gauge temperature. I also put Evans anti boil in the readiator because I was always boiling over when I stopped. Now it doesn't boil but it still gets hot. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by JAWS  -  07/06/2008 01:47 AM When does it get hot? Idle only or also when at speed? An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004   Posted by grant6s  -  07/06/2008 06:52 AM Did you drain the block when you installed the Evans? grant6s [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Washington, New Jersey   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/06/2008 08:02 AM dont believe it is a red problem . possible bad thermostat not opening all the way. as brant said could be retarded timing. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by TYCHOOCHOO  -  07/06/2008 08:48 AM What is the correct timing for a stock 350. I have mine set at 12 degrees advanced with the vac line pluged. It runs at about 185 over the road and about 220 at idel. The fan kicks in at about 205 and shuts at 180 but to reach 180 the car has to be moving. If in traffic I switch on the second fan. This is all without the air on. TYCHOOCHOO [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] MT. SINAI, New York   Posted by jimmothershead  -  07/06/2008 09:04 AM Temporarily tape those 4 holes. Big blocks run hot no matter. Does it puke ? No puke, not to worry. Jim [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Huntingtown, Maryland   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/06/2008 11:33 AM -timing is set by computer and I can watch it on the computer. -Will do a compression leak down test Monday -It get hots if you drive it on the road or at idle. About 30 minutes on the highway before it reaches 226 -I drained the block, radiator and overflow and flushed the system before I put the Evans in -New robert shaw 180 thermostat as of Friday -Computer fan set for 200 on and 180 off. air is not charged yet so it is off kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by ol bear  -  07/06/2008 12:02 PM I AGREE WITH JIM ,, TRY PLUGGING THE HOLES FIRST ! DOES IT OVERHEAT WITH THE HOOD UP ??? , SOUNDS LIKE YOUR MOVING ALOT OF AIR THROUGH THE RADIATOR ,, BUT WITH THE HOOD CLOSED IT NEEDS SOMEWHERE TO GO ,THE NEGATIVE PRESSURE ON THE BACK SIDE OF THE RADIATOR SOUNDS FINE ,,BUT ID ALSO BE CONCERNED WITH THE DIAMETER OF THE WATER PUMP PULLEY ,, IS IT CLOSE TO STOCK?? SMALL ONES TEND TO MOVE WATER TO FAST AND NOT ALLOW THE RADIATOR TO DO ITS JOB ,, OL BEAR OL BEAR [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] crown point, Indiana   Posted by cr55  -  07/06/2008 12:05 PM Jerry, it almost sounds like an airflow problem. Had that on a corvette once. Do you have any type of shroud that isn't installed? I put a walker shroud on my 37 and it cured my" stuck in traffic overheating problems"....CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/06/2008 12:13 PM i dont think it's air. now we all know i'm dumb as a tree stump on computers but it sound like a lean situation or timing . i would use a 2 qrt oil filter to ease the heat a little . i use then on everything and it does help with block temp. this one your going to have to chase. but every car i have used an aluminum rad in is hard to get up to temp. good luck with it. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/06/2008 12:17 PM -I have a shroud on the radiator and the fan is 3000 cfm. -I have a front runner system on it and in speaking with the water pump mfr for the front runner(Stewart) he stated that the flow rate will cool a big block. -attached is picture of setup. I am almost thinking the Bcool radiator isn't enough cooling for the motor although they say it is. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by cr55  -  07/06/2008 12:47 PM wouldn't be the first time a vendor gave the wrong advice!!! I would also check the advice about a lean condition. That made me remember a friend with a sbc with a small blower on it. That thing would get cherry red and all the "mechanics" gave all sorts of fixes. Finally some one told home to richin up the carb and that solved the overheating. Hope this all helps and you get it straightened out....CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/06/2008 01:46 PM I just test drove it again and it is ok for the first 10-15 minutes. Temperature is around 200 and the fan is running. On a 5 mile run on the highway it was ok and only went up a little bit. Idled for a 1 minute with a load and I could see it climb up to 212. Drove back on the road and it went to 210 and then as soon as I got into traffic, it started to climb. 220, then 226, then 232. At that point it stabilized and would not go down. I watch the O2 feedback and the air to fuel mixture on the computer this time. Air to fuel was 14.2 and I accelerated hard it would go to 12.9 to 13.1. On a constant highway speed it stayed at 14.1. The lean/rich indicator shows it at +2 lean until you go coinstant speed than it goes to 0. At idle it is at +1. Timing is at 20 degrees at startup and idle with 850 rpm idle set. At constant speed, timimg is around 23 degrees and when accelerated hard will go to 35 plus. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by JAWS  -  07/06/2008 03:32 PM Wrong thermostat. Dwell time in the radiator is extremely decreased when too cold a range thermostat is used. Basically the same thing as not running one. Bad idea. An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004   Posted by grant6s  -  07/06/2008 07:03 PM Not sure if this means anything, but the BTDC initial timing should be about 8 degrees according to the factory specs, you said your at 20 degrees. grant6s [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Washington, New Jersey   Posted by cr55  -  07/06/2008 07:44 PM I read that too. I wondered how it even cranked over!............CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/06/2008 08:38 PM The actual timing is 12 degrees at startup. I was reading the wrong chart. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/07/2008 10:28 AM anytime ones runs cooler on the road your fan is not moving enough air at idle. same problem with thick radiators. im with brant , i use 195 thermostats. i used a becool in my 37 and it was only 14 wide and 22 tall. still keeps the sbc cool even in traffic and it is a lean tune. it aint the rad. is the a/c condensor part of the rad ? if not is there enough room between them ? dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/07/2008 10:32 AM There is 1 1/2 inches between the radiator and the condensor. Also I can hold a shop rag onto the surface of the condnsor and it stays there when the fan is on so I know I am getting good air pull. Will check a bunch of things today to see if anything works. Thanks. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/07/2008 10:33 AM Plugs looked nice and brown after a 30 minute run. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by ol bear  -  07/07/2008 11:01 AM LOOKS AS THOUGH THE FAN BLADES MAY BE TO CLOSE TO THE CORE BY THE PICTURE , PLUGGING THE HOLES AND MOVING THE FAN SHROUD AN INCH FARTHER AWAY FROM THE CORE WILL MAKE IT MORE EFFICENT BY MOVING AIR MORE EVENLY ACROSS THE WHOLE CORE ,,IE ,, SEE SHINES COMMENTS ALSO ,, OL BEAR OL BEAR [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] crown point, Indiana   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/07/2008 11:05 AM plugging the holes didn't change anything but I have several things to try today. Thanks for the ideas. I need this car on the road. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/07/2008 11:12 AM keep in mind that at hwy speed the 3:50 gear is going to create some issues. i have a friend with a pickup that has a stock 350/350 with 3:55 gears. at 65 on hwy he runs 215-220. rpm = heat wish i could be more help. i think i would seriously consider changing the thermostat if the other things dont work. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by grant6s  -  07/07/2008 11:36 AM Shine, Would you mind explaining to me why a 195 thermostat would be a better choice than a 160 for example if a motor is running hot. I'm not well educated in this area but one would think a 160 thermostat would allow more water to move through the block than a 195. Just asking so I can learn the principals of a cooling system. Thanks grant6s [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Washington, New Jersey   Posted by ol bear  -  07/07/2008 11:53 AM THE 4 POINT FAN BRACKET WITH THE 2 INCH OFFSET LOOKS TO BE THE PERFECT PLACE TO CREAT A SHROUD IF THE FAN COULD BE MOVED AN INCH FARTHER BACK FROM THE CORE ,,,, JU JU JUST MY 2 CENTS ... OL BEAR OL BEAR [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] crown point, Indiana   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/07/2008 12:10 PM you must leave the water in the rad long enough to cool. a 160 is like no thermostat. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by cr55  -  07/07/2008 12:10 PM Grant, I had an overheating problem with a 37 chevy when I first got it running. Went to a 160 thermostat and it overheated worse. Put in a 195 and believe it or not it ran much cooler. Can't explain why but it works! Stopped all my heating problems by installing a walker shroud!.....CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by grant6s  -  07/07/2008 05:21 PM that makes sense. I always thought it was better to try and keep the temp cool rather than wait for it to get hot and then try and cool it down. grant6s [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Washington, New Jersey   Posted by Starfire  -  07/07/2008 01:18 PM When all else fails....... buy a trailer......(grin) Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  07/07/2008 05:37 PM 1956 Chevy Convertible dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by JAWS  -  07/07/2008 09:30 PM One thing I didn't see was the location of the temp sender for the gauge. If it is in the head, then you are not gonna get an actual coolant temp reading, you will get a cylinder head temp. Which if it is higher at speed on the road or under load, makes sense. More rpms means many more bangs in the combustion chamber, ie hotter cylinder head temp. Same as holding your cutting torch against some metal longer, it's gonna get hotter the closer to the flame it is. If you want coolant temp, then put your temps sender closer to the thermostat. Don't believe me, take a temp gun and point it at your exhaust manifolds or even in between them on the head and compare that to the reading you get on the Thermostat housing. An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004   Posted by grant6s  -  07/14/2008 02:07 PM tHE OTHER THING THAT IS BAD ABOUT A TEMP SENSOR IN THE HEAD IS THAT IT WILL PICK UP SOME OF THE HEADER HEAT, BETTER OFF IN THE INTAKE OR WATER NECK. grant6s [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Washington, New Jersey   Posted by kjensrud  -  07/14/2008 06:02 PM Well thanks to everyone for the help and the great ninformation. I fixed the problem. 1. The engine was running a little lean so I richen it up some. That allowed me to run longer before heating up. 2. I took the Be Cool radiator out and installed a Griffin crossflow radiator with the same 3000 cfm fan that I had on the BeCool radiator. It now will run on the highway at 3000-3400 rpm at 185-188 degrees. In town it will get to around 207 if you idle for 15 to 20 minutes. I am happy!!! I have a dyno test next week to fine tune it and a road test for driveability. Then I have a 800 mile trip planned... Thanks again. kjensrud [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Sherwood, Oregon   Posted by ol bear  -  07/15/2008 08:39 AM NOWS THE TIME TO ENJOY IT JERRY ,,,,,,,,,,, SHINE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD EARLY IN THIS POST LEAN LEAN LEAN ,, ANOTHER FINE JOB ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,OL BEAR OL BEAR [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] crown point, Indiana

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