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Eric Hibbs (aka 31tudor) [ View ] [ ehibbs@nuteltech.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ] St. George, Utah (435) 668-1401  Eric Hibbs

My '31 has a tilt column out of a Pontiac Fiero. The ignition key is in the switch, stuck. The key will turn from the accessory to the start position freely, but will not come back to the lock position so I can't get the key out. I also can't lock the steering column this way. I was told that many GM columns have a small detent underneath, and that by pushing on this detent (with a piece of solid wire or the like) the whole tumbler will slide right out. This column doesn't have that. How can I remove the tumbler? If I can get it out (without damaging it) I can probably figure out what's wrong and fix it.

Comments

Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/20/2008 03:18 PM Eric-- if you run into a total FUBAR. I have an estra tilt column from a '93 Z-28 in my garage too... MC Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by scooting  -  06/20/2008 03:20 PM Seems like my Fiero had a hole in the chrome by the key that you could push a wire into. Would only work if the key was in. Your's got that? scooting [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Elkridge, Maryland   Posted by bigdude  -  06/20/2008 03:27 PM Eric-make sure the shifter sleeve on the column hasnt turned. That can be the problem. resident know it all [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Three Rivers, Michigan Charter Member since January 2004   Posted by Willys33  -  06/20/2008 05:03 PM Bigdude got it right, shifter sleeve has moved. It is a safety feature that you can't remove the key while the car is in gear. Get off the trailer and drive [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Alamogordo, New Mexico   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/20/2008 05:49 PM Thanks Mike. If I screw it up too bad we'll talk. Also thanks for the info on the motors. Scooting, there's a very small notch in the bottom of the collar that I got a wire into. This let me pull the chrome "twisty thing" out along with my key. The rest of the assembly is still firmly located in the column. Bigdude and Jerry, no shifter sleeve on this column, Fiero's had a console shifter. Would there still be some mechanical device to allow/disallow the ignition switch to lock? Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/20/2008 05:54 PM Eric-- I would think there would be... it has to be some kind of anti-theft detent. Get online and do some surfing. Mark (not Mike) Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/20/2008 05:56 PM D'oh! Sorry Mark! Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/20/2008 06:12 PM And I believe that there may have been column shifted Fieros, but MY column has no shifter. Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/20/2008 06:20 PM Oh crap. I think I just realized I have made a big mistake here. After browsing all over for info I've realized that this probably ISN'T a Fiero column. The Fiero column had a very square boxed area at the top of the column. Mine does not. I thought it was a Fiero because of the emblem in the center of the steering wheel. Apparently it isn't. I'll try to find a picture of the emblem in the center of the steering wheel for better identification. In the meantime, for console shifted automatics, where would the connection be on the column for this safety cable? Oops, is my ignorance showing? Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by scooting  -  06/20/2008 06:57 PM In days long ago, somepeople would break the key switch out that you removed, then stick a flat blade screwdriver into the hole, line up with the mechanism, and drive off with their "new" car. If you look into the hole, is that possible? If so, you may be able to turn the locking mechanism enough to make it unlock. Used to see this all the time in the San Diego junk yards, after the "new" car was not new enough anymore. scooting [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Elkridge, Maryland   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/20/2008 07:03 PM Eric-- probably Pontiac Firebird.... That is what I am using-- almost exactly like the Camaro one I have. Do you want me to take a picture?! Mark Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by cr55  -  06/20/2008 07:16 PM While we are on this subject, how do you remove the key switch from a 77 corvette? Mine will now start without the key in the column.Scary.............CR I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware   Posted by JAWS  -  06/20/2008 07:36 PM Eric, Remove wheel Remove lock plate by compressing and removing c retaining clip remove turnsignal arm remove turnsignal switch remove Key in ignition switch buzzer contact remove bolt that is behind it and under lock cylinder remove lock cylinder with broken key Pray that rack and pinion for the ignition switch is still good and not bound up in there, therefore causing the key to break in the first place.....maybe. OR call me if you get stuck... An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004   Posted by JAWS  -  06/20/2008 07:41 PM I must add, that since 69 in gm cars the key went to the column and away from the dash, later in trucks, 73 and even later in vans, like to 80 something. As described above, that is the procedure to removing the "lock and cylinder" that the key goes in for most of these columns. There is some varience in a few, but still the same idea. The ignition switch itself is mounted on the column tube and a rod is used to operate it from the lock and cylinder by way of a rack and pinion systemish thingy. Brant An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004   Posted by okey4001  -  06/21/2008 12:23 AM On the first column switches the spring cap pops up in to the slot for the sidebar which actually is what locks it. The spring cap were bad about coming loose and sticking the switch, can't turn it off and can't start it. Then you have to do the tear down that was talked about earlyer. Bob [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Copan, Oklahoma Charter Member since April 2007   Posted by DavyJ  -  06/21/2008 11:19 AM Eric, the Pontiac with floor shift had a cable that moved a lever at the bottom of the column, it will not lock until it thinks it is in park. look for a small tab or rotatable collar at the bottom end. Still driving the wife's car, cause I am slow. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Niagara Falls, Canada Charter Member since February 2005   Posted by jimmothershead  -  06/21/2008 11:39 AM Don'tcha just love this helpfull site ?? Jim [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Huntingtown, Maryland   Posted by tlp1968  -  06/21/2008 11:46 AM Smartest mechanics on the Internet!!!! We have experts for everything and boy isn't that a blessing when stuff gets screwed up! StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield,, Illinois Charter Member since August 2003   Posted by meangene  -  06/21/2008 12:41 PM does it have the switch on the colum(where the wires plug in )should be a rod running down to it maybe its bound there thats really the switch even a blind hog finds a acorn [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Labadie, Missouri   Posted by meangene  -  06/21/2008 12:41 PM does it have the switch on the (where the wires plug in )should be a rod running down to it maybe its bound there thata really the switdh even a blind hog finds a acorn [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Labadie, Missouri   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  06/21/2008 01:25 PM take a bfh to that thing to get it's attention......... then replace same... got a thing about gm colums. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by da34guy  -  06/21/2008 01:41 PM That's what ya get when ya buy Junk outta junk yards. Like the old saying goes If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, must be a ???? Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/21/2008 08:05 PM Eric-- No word from you. Have you had any luck brother? MC Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by ForVette  -  06/22/2008 09:26 AM Have you moved the steering wheel in both directions? Sometimes with a little force, this will allow to unlock also. ForVette [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Southaven, Mississippi   Posted by ForVette  -  06/22/2008 09:36 AM By the way, my 96 Vette does this because if the Button on gear shift does not Pop up completely, it will only let key come back to ACC mode. Have to wiggle gearshift. Hope this might help you. ForVette [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Southaven, Mississippi   Posted by 41 Kustom  -  06/23/2008 08:53 AM I have a Olds tilt and telescope colum. My turn signal handle broke off, how can I replace that? Thanks 41 Kustom [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Essex, Vermont   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/23/2008 10:05 AM Does your Olds column have one of those funky-- multifunction turn signals with the washer/wiper/cruise stuff all on it? I had to replace mine to delete the cruise functions and should have a part # somewhere. If you need ALL of it (including cruise control)-- they actually sell them in the "HELP!" section at the basic car parts stores (Autozone, etc.). They just press in. MC Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/23/2008 03:06 PM Brant, I think you gave the instructions that I was looking for. I'll try it out tonight or in the next few days to see what I can come up with. Dave, I think that's the problem I'm having with this column, thanks for the input! I can't see either a collar or a pin anywhere on the column that would keep the key from returning to the lock position. Granted, I don't really know what I'm looking for, but if someone can hum a few bars.... Yep Gene, like I said to DavyJ, but I just don't know what exactly I'm looking for. Shine, I got rid of BFH. Broke too many unbroken parts when I got pissed off! Don... bite me! Mark, sorry wasn't at my desk for the weekend. Just got back and read all of these great suggestions! Dave, thanks for the thoughts on rocking the wheel left to right. Had a lot of GM's over the years that I had this problem with, but I can't get the key IN to the lock position. It's stuck in the accessory position and will rotate to the start position, but not back to the lock position. Here's a few pics of the column, whatta y'all think??? I'll also include a pic of the stock steering wheel and emblem. Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/23/2008 03:15 PM By the way, by gently prying I was able to remove the wingnut twisty thingy that the key slides into. Now what??? And what the hell is the emblem on the steering wheel? I thought it was a Fiero, but I'm pretty sure it's not T/A or Firebird. Maybe a Sunbird? It sure looks like a Pontiac emblem, doesn't it??? Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by gman0046  -  06/23/2008 03:18 PM Eric, for what its worth I will pass this on. About 6 months ago I couldn't start my Chevy Trailblazer as the key wouldn't turn to the start position. Called my neighbor who is a locksmith. He said sometimes in GM columns the tumblers get out of alignment. He smacked the end of the key in the direction of the center of the column which fixed the problem. Haven't had a problem since. Get out the BFH and give it a try. gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/23/2008 03:25 PM I don't know what that emblem is-- looks Pontiac of some kind. And, looks to be from the 70's too. Eric-- The Camaro column I have should work for you if you get too FUBAR still. So, you still have an out. Maybe a Sunbird? Dunno. Good luck! MC Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by 31tudor  -  06/23/2008 03:38 PM Okay, at least the horn button insignia is indeed a Fiero. I suspect the whole thing is because it didn't appear to have ever been taken apart. Every Fiero column I've found a photo of online has a big plastic box looking thing around the area where the ignition key, blinker stalk, and column tilt lever are. Still looking though... Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by da34guy  -  06/23/2008 03:49 PM After ya get it all apart Will it go back together??? LMAO I see a IDIDIT in the near future. Keepin it simple in AZ Is the check in the mail? Don Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001   Posted by orphans2  -  06/23/2008 03:53 PM Eric, now is the time to get a replacement BFH and finish the job. Use the BFH to take it the rest of the way apart, then call Ididit or Flaming River and get a good one. I mean what the hell, you half way there as it is. orphans2 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Stewartstown, Pennsylvannia Charter Member since November 2001   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  06/23/2008 04:04 PM gm columns are cheap . i use s10's a lot. i aint about to pay those prices for a column . i can find one just a good for 1/2 what they charge. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by Italianguy63  -  06/23/2008 08:03 PM Eric-- Here is a picture of the '93 Camaro column I have. There is also a picture of the "finished" Trans Am column I am using for my project. I had to remove the cruise control wiring and replace the stalk. Cut off the flange where it mounts to the floor. Remove the mounting flange at the dash. And this one would require you remove the air bag wiring too if you wanted to. After you do all that and repaint it-- they look pretty darn good. The wiring color should be identical. But remember the turn signals, wipers, washers, high beams, and hazards are all on the stalk. Let me know if this can help you out... Mark. Speed is about how fast do you want to spend! [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Bartow, Florida   Posted by 29robert  -  06/23/2008 10:15 PM Eric. Ya might start thinkin about a new column. Even if ya get this thing fixed, it might happen again down the road. That's assuming ya get down the road. LOL I got my Ididit straight column for less than $300 and it came with turn signal and emergency flasher. Of course a tilt or polished column would be more. Take a look at what Lime Works has to offer. Those are pretty basic. 29robert [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] La Verne, California Charter Member since November 2004   Posted by JAWS  -  06/23/2008 11:13 PM Eric your in luck, that is an early design of this column. Now that you broke the ears off the Lock and cylinder, you still aren't any closer to getting it out. Remove the wheel Under that wheel you will see a plate with lots of notches around the outer edge. Those notches are for the steering wheel lock when the key and shifter are in park and off. There is a lock ring holding that plate on and it is under tension from the spring below it, so you must compress the plate (they sell the tool and any auto parts store) to remove the lock ring. After you pulled that apart you will have access to the turn signal switch and the lock and cylinder retainer, either bolt or push button thingy. An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004

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