MIG Welding
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MIG Welding
Posted: June 01 2008 09:43 AM
 
Richard Sackett (aka sach) [ View ] [ dickyfix@triad.rr.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
Cana, Virginia
(276) 755-3944
 
I'm a novice welder and have always "pulled" my wire away from the weld bead as I weld. Then, I happen to catch a rod building TV program the other day, where they said "pushing " the tip away from the weld bead , was a better and cleaner weld. Any opinions on this method, pros and cons ?

Sach
 
 
Comments
 
Posted by Alf  -  06/01/2008 09:55 AM
I am not a pro welder, but I have been sticking things together for a long time. My experience has been that when I am welding thin material, like body sheet metal I like to "pull" the gun. This means the arc is coming into cool metal and less tendency to burn through. If I am welding heavier material, like a frame, I try to "push" the weld ahead of the gun, figuring that the heat is traveling ahead of the arc and it seems to give me better penatration.
Lanny Netz [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Grass Valley, California
 
Posted by sixguns  -  06/01/2008 10:42 AM
Alf has it figured out, pushing the wire will place it ahead of the weld pool so it will penatrate the base metal, where pulling puts the wire in the pool so your welding on top of the weld. I perfer a series of spot welds on sheet metal.
Enjoy the Ride [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Woodland, Washington Charter Member since June 2002
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  06/01/2008 10:44 AM
i weld by pushing the wire back into the puddle same as tig. this cools the weld and prevents blow outs. i weld towards myself and use a flood light behind me so i can see better. mig welders are dangerous as they can lay a pretty bead that wont hold anything.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by blade58  -  06/01/2008 07:33 PM
when welding down hill or overhead on sheat metal you have no choice but to pull then again if you are using .025 70-S wire and have fine adjustment on your machine you can adjust the heat and push ,if you are welding material thickr tnen 1/8" you will probably using .035 70-s wirenot all mig welders are not created equally
blade58 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] apopka, Florida
 
Posted by Alf  -  06/01/2008 08:10 PM
I know this is not exactly the question that you asked, but I want to mention a type of clamp that I use when mig welding sheet metal. I don't know the exact name of it, but it uses a piece of square stock that is pulled tight against the two parts to hold them until they are welded. The clamp causes a gap of about 60 thousanths which allows a space for the weld to fill. When they first came out a few years ago they were expensive. I think I paid about $35.00 for five clamps from Eastwood. Now they are available from Harbor Freight for about $5.00 for five. When I chopped the top on my '46 Ford I pretty much mocked up the entire job using these clamps before I started tac welding. And yes, I agree, a series of tac welds is what seems to work best on sheet metal. When I tig weld I like a really tight fit, but when mig welding a little clearance seems to help prevent distortion. And Crazyhorse is right about it being possible for a mig weld to appear Ok while being without strength. But on sheet metal I have not found that to be a problem. Also, using a chunk of copper for backup while filling holes works wonders too. And, Blade is right, not all welders are created equal. I use a Linclon 125 for my light work. I use a Linde 250 for my frame type welding. For me , one size does not fit all. Sorry for the "run on", I hope this helps.
Lanny Netz [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Grass Valley, California
 
Posted by Willys33  -  06/01/2008 08:32 PM
When welding 1/8" and thicker I use a back and forth motion as I push the wire along with a tilt to the nossle so that it "floods" the area with gas onto and ahead of the weld. I watch the metal melt and join with the wire puddle to ensure good penatration.
Get off the trailer and drive [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Alamogordo, New Mexico
 
Posted by sach  -  06/02/2008 06:57 PM
To Alf - I have seen those clamps in use before and I checked Harbour Freight. They are not advertised on their web catalog. I have checked around at various tool supply stores and no one knows what I'm talking about. Unable to check my Eastwood catalog, seems like it took a walk somewhere. I'll try their on-line store. They sure would come in handy for sheet metal projects.
sach [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Cana, Virginia
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  06/02/2008 07:14 PM
they are intergrips. basicly a t clamp.the t part is 1/8 thick. stick it thru a turn , then tighten. eastwood has several types. also called butt weld clamps.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Alf  -  06/02/2008 07:50 PM
Hi Sach, The Harborfreight part# is 44751. It comes in a kit of 8 pc,s. This is one time when the cheap "made in china" copy works just as well as the high priced version. The clamp is designed to force a clearance of .040 which works out just about right for welding body sheet metal. I bought 5 kits, so I could almost build a car using just the clamps...
Lanny Netz [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Grass Valley, California
 
Posted by sach  -  06/03/2008 04:46 PM
I called Harbour Freight and all you get is voice mail ( press 1, then press 2 etc. now enter your part number and so on.) Then , according to the voice robot, it declared that the part number is no longer available. However, you get the feeling that it may be available in some stores. I'll call my local store and see what they have to say.
sach [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Cana, Virginia
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/03/2008 05:26 PM
Don't trust their website, it SUCKS! Apparently the website has a completely different inventory than the stores... not just quantities, but actual products too. Also, each store get different inventory than the next. Sounds like an inventory nightmare to me!


I learned this about a year ago when I was trying to find some handtruck wheels and tires for a go-kart.
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by hidollartoys  -  06/04/2008 09:55 PM
I will pull the gun just like stick or gas. For me, I let the heat creat the puddle then fill. When I use push method I cant see the puddle and my weld quality suffers. Remember, torch head speed is the critical aspect of welding. Too slow and you blow thru, too fast and you lay down a cold joint with no strength. The key is penetration. Filler metal is just that, filler metal. More is not necessarly better especially for joints in light guage material. My suggestion is to practice pracitce practice. Find a method that works for you and prefect it. Have patence and be willing to fail. metal can be added and metal can be taken away. The finished product is what we are after. Sorry for the run on Thanks for reading.
hidollartoys [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] gardner, Kansas
 
Posted by sach  -  06/05/2008 07:16 PM
highdollartoys - Thanks for your input. I'll be gathering up some scrap pieces to practice on.

Sach
sach [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Cana, Virginia
 
Posted by Tlagnhoj  -  07/30/2008 04:58 PM
The butt welding clamps are still available at SOME Harbor Freight stores as of today. I have one store by my house and one 35 miles away near my fathers house. One of the stores did not have them but the other did. The price marked on the shelf was $4.99 but the packages were marked $2.99.


These would not be terribly hard to make and I’m thinking that I may make a few with different sized spacers for working material other than 20Ga sheet. I couldn’t sell them for $4.99 but if anyone is interested in making there own I could cut the spacers for a reasonable price.
Tlagnhoj [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Plymouth, Michigan
 
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