Any Chevy 348/409 Experts Here??
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Any Chevy 348/409 Experts Here??
Posted: May 26 2008 05:12 AM
 
BigAl Breland (aka BigAlBre) [ View ] [ bigalbre ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
St Pete Beach, Florida
(866) 787-6337
 Big Al sittin back in paradise.
 
In 1964 I had a 1959 biscayne.... I bought, what I thought, was a 348 engine (out of a 60 Impala) in a local junkyard in Santa Ana, Calif. We could never get the valves set right resulting in bent pushrods and rockers coming off every time I put my foot in it. I finally took the car to Engine Masters in Orange, Calif. The mechanic there popped the hood and to my surprise (and satisfaction) said "this is a 409".... I never expected that (since the car had tri carbs and their were no tri carbed 409's) and for some unknown reason we never ran the engine numbers.... my question is.... would a 348 tri carb manifold bolt onto the 409 or did it have to use the 348 heads? I suspect whoever owned it was cheating at the drag strip..... btw if anybody in southern calif knows of that car (it was a black two door post car)... I would love to find it
 
Comments
 
Posted by ol bear  -  05/26/2008 11:01 AM
ALONG WITH DANICA IN THE BACK SEAT !!!!!!!! OL BEAR
OL BEAR [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] crown point, Indiana
 
Posted by dixie  -  05/26/2008 01:04 PM
there u go again ol man. mind your manners
jim grace [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dade city, Florida Charter Member since January 2006
 
Posted by hotrodgene  -  05/26/2008 07:46 PM
I had a 348 w/3carbs.in a 59 ElCamino and changed over to a race built 409 and headed for the strip,much to my surprize the first inspector on check in said that is not a 348 since the oil dip stick was on right side and all 348's are on left.So after learning that I changed oil pan and found crank was hitting pan.Off with pan and a lot of beating got clearance.after that won my class ever trip.I know it was cheating but everone else was also in some way.
Gene Riffe [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Saint Petersburg, Florida
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  05/26/2008 10:31 PM
Gene did you have tri power on the 409?
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by TxLumpy  -  05/26/2008 10:42 PM
Hey Ol Bear................I'm with you on that one. This ol girl is so hot...she has fire coming out of her socks !!!

I took this picture a few years ago at the Hot August Nights Show in Beaumont, TX. It's one of my favorites.
Carl M. Johnson [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Conroe, Texas
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  05/27/2008 10:32 AM
To my knowledge, there were no "official" tri-power 409s. The intake manifolds are different enough that you can't bolt a 348 intake to 409 heads.


There were always rumors of GM produced secret tri-power 409s, but guys who wanted the power would have passed them over for a dual quad Z11 head and intake anyway.


Al, I have a GREAT article on building 409's if you'd like a copy. Even discusses using a turned 454 crank and boring the block to get like 496 cubic inches!!! WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by hotrodgene  -  05/27/2008 11:27 AM
I did have the 3 two's on 409 but to be honest it has been so long ago I dont remember if I used the 348 heads or not.
Gene Riffe [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Saint Petersburg, Florida
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  05/27/2008 11:30 AM
Eric I'd love a copy... thanks I thought maybe late 1961 Chevy may have made some or the intakes would exchange
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by 1carguy  -  05/27/2008 02:58 PM
Many years ago a buddy of mine had a 348, tri power impala and we used to keep spare push rods in the glove box. Never found out why it did it but changed many on the side of the road. We were lucky we never jammed a valve open on the wrong stroke.
1carguy [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Pleasanton, California
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  05/27/2008 05:02 PM
Carguy that is exactly what kept happening to me... I had the tools and two boxes of pushrods behind my seat... I could change them in the dark...I'll bet you had a 409 also
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by jimmothershead  -  05/27/2008 08:02 PM
Zackly why I would not touch a 348/409 back in the day......they would ruin my rep. SBC or nuttin'. GMC invented them for trucks. My shop on Capitol Hill here in Washington DC was "Chevy Specialties"...no truck BB engines allowed. Like a flathead...great boat anchor.
Nuff said.
Jim [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Huntingtown, Maryland
 
Posted by 1carguy  -  05/27/2008 10:59 PM
Jim, I also knew a guy back in the old days that would gladly argue that point with anyone willing to take him on...he bought a brand new 62 chevy with a factory 409, 4 speed that smoked everyone in town!
1carguy [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Pleasanton, California
 
Posted by jimmothershead  -  05/28/2008 09:51 AM
Brady aka 1carguy.........your '62 Chevy/409 guy did not race the streets of Washington DC. Otherwise a salmon and charcoal '55 Chevy hard top would have blown him away on Pennsylvania Ave about 10 blocks from the Capitol. Or if he was from Virginia where all the kids Daddies bought them factory drag cars, I would have killed him on H road between the Pentagon and Roslyn Circle..or down George Washington Memorial Parkway, or on Route 50 next to Tops Drive In.
Most 348/409 if they got to 4500 rpm would pull rocker studs. GMC designed them as truck engines, not for drag cars.
Still havin' fun with cars since 1957, Jim & Rosina

Oh, yeah...why was it a killer ? '57 283 truck block bored to 301, balanced, align bored, plained, Iskey RR 2 roller cam, 5/8" riser Jahns pistons, Vertex magneto, Corvette 2x4 carbs, T-10 4 speed, 4.56 posi, Atlas Bucron tires, S&W pump.
Jim [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Huntingtown, Maryland
 
Posted by 1carguy  -  05/28/2008 12:46 PM
OK....so I came from a small town.
1carguy [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Pleasanton, California
 
Posted by nitrofc  -  06/10/2008 08:37 PM
I love my Boat Anchor ......
nitrofc [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Northern, New Jersey
 
Posted by dixie  -  06/10/2008 09:09 PM
them W motors ant boat anchors anymore with all the new stuff they got now.
jim grace [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dade city, Florida Charter Member since January 2006
 
Posted by Starfire  -  06/10/2008 09:31 PM
Don't believe there was ever a tri-power 409, but in '62 it was offered with dual quads. A real honker with 11:1 compression kicking out 409 hp @ 6000 rpm and 420 lb/ft of torque at 4000 rpm.

Interestingly, the 348 introduced in 1958 had many design aspects identical to the Mercury 383 introduced the same year, right down to the camel hump exhaust manifolds (Mercury manifolds had the humps facing upwards making them an "M" instead of a "W"). Both block designs were unique in that as far as I know they were the only engines ever produced to have the firing chamber entirely in the block. Made both engine types a bear to deal with when dropping in a set of pistons or boring out.
Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  06/10/2008 09:53 PM
Well I had one.... I just don't know how it was done I'll keep researching.... maybe someone will know....409 block with 348 heads maybe ?? I wish the hell I still had it or could find it....
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by NHRAstocker409  -  06/10/2008 10:12 PM
Hi guys, I just joined...

Looks like I have lots to learn about 348/409's here.

In the mean time, Bigal,

ABSOLUTELY

that 58-61 348 triple 2bbl intake will bolt on to ANY 409 that does not have the large port "690" or "583" heads ( forget the Z11 stuff... you'll never see them ).

In very round figures:

All 1962 409 have large ports. 1963-1965, about half of the approx 28, 000 pass car 409's, had large ports.

The rest of the car engines, and all of the truck engines, have heads that accept any 348 intake.


hope that help


BTW, jimmo... if you had ever stumbled across a 63 or 64 large port 409 car, with similar mods as your LITTLE 301...

HEEEE HEEE HAAAA HEEEE !!!

what different story yours would be ( if you'd dare share it ! )


Yes, there ARE many new, modern design products available now... and soon to be available.
NHRAstocker409 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Hanna, Canada
 
Posted by 348 4-speed  -  06/10/2008 11:47 PM
Hey guys I just joined as well. One of our members over at . http://www.348-409.com/ posted a link to this thread. Looks like you guys have a lot to learn. We all had a good laugh reading this thread. There are plenty of experts over there and a ton of information. Stop in for a visit and you will find out just how much of a boat anchor these W engines are. These aren't your everyday ol crate motors that any joker can reach in his pocket and pull out the cash and say I'll take one of those. There are several of us over there with strokers as mentioned by 31tudor. If you go to any car show you can see lots of sbc & bbc but when you see a W car they always get the attention.
348 4-speed [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] down by the river, Washington
 
Posted by dq409  -  06/10/2008 11:56 PM
Sorry guys,,,, I am also new here and from the 348-409 site.

I guess I can`t be as nice as my fellow members when it comes to trashing our engines with your ignorant comments!!

Sometimes you should keep the pie hole closed if you don`t know what the heck you are talking about !!

But,, You SHOULD view our site and learn about your mistakes in the past that caused all the problems you had with these fine engines !!

Young and stupid does not make the engine you can`t get running right or keep running bad !!

How do you think all those 409`s set 1/4 mile records and blew the competition away back in the day ???

I run a pretty much stock dual quad 409 in a `62 Impala and run the 1/4 in full street dress at 12.3 and the redline is 6800 rpm !!!
dq409 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Portland, Oregon
 
Posted by Starfire  -  06/11/2008 12:13 AM
"Sorry guys,,,, I am also new here and from the 348-409 site."

Well dq409 maybe you just need to stay where you came from. No one here was "trashing" the 409. Actually, you'll rarely find anyone here doing trashing of any kind, and especially of the nature of your trash talk post here. Not exactly a good way to win new friends or to be welcomed. So why don't you just take your "trash" elsewhere, we don't need or want it here!
Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas
 
Posted by NHRAstocker409  -  06/11/2008 12:38 AM
Starfire... I've known DQ409 for a number of years, now. If you knew the kind of stuff we've had to listen to, I think you'd understand.


It simply gets a little old... "truck engine", ect.


oh, and this pushrod conspiracy...

If you had pushrod problems with these engines, you did something wrong... period. The valve train, although heavy, is INCREDIBLY durable ( mostly due to it's simplicity ). 100,000 miles on old engines, and I have seen the original guides still ready to go.


Here, watch a stock 1962 409, shifted at 7000 RPM:

http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/mybelairaug252005roadtestwatching.mpg


no more trash talk, ok ?
NHRAstocker409 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Hanna, Canada
 
Posted by Starfire  -  06/11/2008 02:01 AM
NHRAstocker409 - Sometimes it is best to let the ignorant bask in their own stupidity. There is a lot of stupid on just about every car forum on the web.

No point in getting one's drawers in a wedgie over something like calling the 409 a truck engine. Fact is the 348 never appeared in a pickup truck before it was dropped into an Impala in 1958. Whether a 409 was ever used in a pickup or other truck I can't say, nor do I care. I will say with the torque it produces it would have made logical sense for it to have been used in a truck intended for serious weight hauling or towing. An engine being a truck engine is really not a problem now is it? Doesn't seem to be a problem for Chevy 454 lovers or Ford 460 folks.

As for push rod bending, I've managed to bend push rods on just about any engine one can think of in over 50 years of messing with engines. I've blown 6-71 superchargers right off an intake and embedded valves into heads. I go back far enough to remember when the strips started requiring scatter shields over bell housings. With that said, it hasn't been that long ago I bent 4 push rods on a bored and stroked 650 hp Mercury 383 (now 460). It's real easy to do if valve springs are on the ragged edge of being too strong for the cam setup, or the valve lash was adjusted just a bit too close for normal engine operating temperature. And we won't even talk about how many push rods can bite the dust if pushing the rpms beyond the red line. So it stands to reason one can indeed bend the snot out of push rods in a 409 or any other engine without something being drastically wrong.

So if you guys don't want any trash talk, just don't bring it here or expect to be treated with kid gloves if you do. In other words, grow up!
Starfire [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Weimar, Texas
 
Posted by fitzwell   -  06/11/2008 09:29 AM
i bent the pushrods on a Briggs & Stratton once....
normal?? Normal is a cycle on a washing machine [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] benbrook, Texas
 
Posted by gman0046  -  06/11/2008 10:26 AM
Unfortunately you can't stop people from bad mouthing what was a very fast car back in the day. I'd love to have one right now. Or posting they had the worlds fastest small block. Who are they trying to impress. Lets keep the "I had the fastest car" BS out of the posts. No one believes it anyway.
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by Ronnie Russell  -  06/11/2008 10:26 AM
Another 348-409 member. Relax, this is a one time post. No need of trash talk. Our 348-409 forum is dedicated to helping people that have questions or want to build or own a w head engine. Because of negative publications over the years, sometimes we are a little defensive. Okay, a lot defensive. Some members of this forum have bad opinions about w head engines. No big deal, we are used to hearing stuff like that. There are street rods all across this country that are being built with w head engines. This web-site will be gaining new members who own 348-409s. nitrofc can answer a lot of questions, if need be, but everyone is welcome to visit us and there is always someone on our site that is more than willing to help. We are a close knit family and when one of us are attacked then all of us respond. We should not consider a few negative comments as an attack, but we are quick to take offense on the "truck motor " term. The comment about 4,500 rpms was not offensive,, it was so wrong that I found it amusing. For those of you that have negative opinions of the 348-409 family, nothing will change that, but for those who honestly want information on the subject, please visit us and you will recieve help. The original question about 348 intake manifolds fitting 409s is a common valid question that we hear often. Why would a small block/ big block or Ford, Mopar guy know that? He or she , would not. The biggest problem is many years of misinformation that has been published over the years. So , in closing, try to understand why some subjects are l little touchy to us and if 348-409 members can help, please ask, after all, there are 348-409 members who belong to this site and many streetrodders who belong to the 348-409 site. And of course, this is just my opinion, I speak for noone, this is just my outlook on the situation.
Ronnie Russell [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Ladonia, Texas
 
Posted by brian41chevy  -  06/11/2008 11:08 AM
Hey nice post Ronnie. You can say the same about this site being friendly and trying to help each other out to. It gets a little opionated around here sometimes to. But for the most part a great group of people. You guys should pop in more often, your always welcome.
There is a fine line between hobby and mental illness [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] New Lenox, Illinois Charter Member since November 2004
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  06/11/2008 11:57 AM
I started this post (and visited the 348-409 site) because I had a real question... I for one love the 409 (I had two of them).... anyway I got my answer from the 348-409 guy's... I appreciate it... there's no need for car guys, especially chevy vs chevy, to get hostile. Now chevy vs ford is a whole different story hehehehe anway keep it clean and friendly...or I'll sick the old porch dawg on ya.. Big Al
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by 348 4-speed  -  06/11/2008 12:41 PM
Very good post Ronnie. As mentioned in earlier posts by my fellow members at 348-409 we are dedicated to the correctness of the 348/409 engines and do get our dander up a bit when the ol "Truck Engine" gets thrown out there. This is truly a great engine and, once your hooked there is no going back. That said we would love to see any of the members here stop in for a visit at www.348-409.com. It is one of the best sites on the net that provides casting #'s trim & vin tag identification along with a platoriam of other information.

Aside from that, this morning I was doing some resurch on the net for BBC stuff as I do have one of those as well and have loved them since they were first introduce in 1965. I came across this it is for the most part correct with some misinformation but by and by I think it is fairly correct. Just a simple stroke of the fingers and quite a bit of information to be had. Thanks to the 348/409 we all now benefit with the BBC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Big-Block_engine
348 4-speed [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] down by the river, Washington
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  06/11/2008 12:08 PM
I started this post (and visited the 348-409 site) because I had a real question... I for one love the 409 (I had two of them).... anyway I got my answer from the 348-409 guy's... I appreciate it... there's no need for car guys, especially chevy vs chevy, to get hostile. Now chevy vs ford is a whole different story hehehehe anway keep it clean and friendly...or I'll sick the old porch dawg on ya.. Big Al


NHRAStocker409 did you ever know of a 62 409 called "White Lightening" that ran at strips around mississippi and the south...owned by Elisha Boyd... I went to high school with him
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by cr55  -  06/11/2008 12:12 PM
my buddy set a record in his class in 1964 with a new 409 impala. That record is still standing for his class at Cecil county dragway in Maryland... CR
I thought that I knew it all , but.. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dover, Delaware
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/11/2008 12:25 PM
Holy $HIT! Am I the only one to watch the video posted above??? What a bad A$$ '62!!!


Guys from the 348-409 site, thanks for dropping in! It's great to have a cross-section of opinion and we appreciate your input. Sounds like I too was way off on my comments. All I know about the W motor is what I've read. Someday I'll build a bored and stroked one for my '60 Bel Air 2-door post car!



http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/mybelairaug252005roadtestwatching.mpg>Here's an easy link to that video above
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by 348 4-speed  -  06/11/2008 12:39 PM
31tudor, Aubrey's 62' is impressive and there are many more. Your 60' Bel-Air would be great with a W stroker. Very cool car. I am on the prowl for 59' or 60' as well.
348 4-speed [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] down by the river, Washington
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/11/2008 01:08 PM
Thanks Dan. My '60 isn't for sale but my '41 is! That would sure be bitchin to drop a W motor into!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/11/2008 01:10 PM
By the way, Big Al (the OTHER Big Al, nitrofc) is a good buddy of mine. His coupe was just featured in Street Rodder.


Don't give him any crap... he's one big dude! LOL
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by gman0046  -  06/11/2008 06:59 PM
Had a 58 Black Impala hardtop, with a 348, 280 HP and 3 two barrels and a 3 speed out of the factory. It wasn't the fastest car in the world but sure was fun to drive. I don't care what you call those W motors, they are still pretty impressive.
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  06/11/2008 03:51 PM
no problem Eric btw I had a 60 two door post car in Detroit... got it home... stepped in the back to check something and went right through the floor... took a speed limit sign down in my apt complex... put it under the rear mat... sold the car the next week.... damned salt
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/11/2008 03:58 PM
Al, did you get the 409 article I emailed? My floors are solid as can be. Ahhh.... life in the desert!!!
Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002
 
Posted by BigAlBre  -  06/11/2008 05:36 PM
eric I haven't received anything.... unless I deleted it by mistake.... vabreland@yahoo.com
Big Al sittin back in paradise. [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St Pete Beach, Florida Charter Member since June 1999
 
Posted by 31tudor  -  06/11/2008 05:39 PM
Just resent to your the address you just provided. Give it a look and let me know!