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boop coupe (aka boop coupe) [ View ] [ Email ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ] clarksville, Maryland  Frank Jones

I will be painting my 30 Model A coupe starting mid febuary. I have read alot of articles, talked to alot of people and think I have a good understanding of what to do. My question is,.....after dismantle, I am having the car soda blasted. Next - apply the epoxy primer with in a 24 hour period ( 75 year old cars tend to rust quickly) , do minor body work with body filler, prep and apply primer filler. Block sand and prep. All in the same day shoot sealer, base coat and clear. Wait a week, color sand, and buff with system 1. Does this sound like a good plan or am I missing something here? I have a bottom feed gun with a 1.8 tip for primers and a HVLP gun with a 1.4 tip for base coat , clear. What do you think?

Comments

Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/02/2008 02:37 PM i think you should rethink the soda blast. i wont even consider a car that has been soda blasted. cure time between coats is very important. what kind of materials are you using? dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by Rods & Customs by Leon  -  01/02/2008 03:03 PM Im with shine on that, Don't mess with the soda blasting, it leaves the surface to smooth and then you'll have to rough it up to get addhesion anyway, Go with the media blasting and save yourself an unplanned step. Rods & Customs by Leon [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Highlands, Texas Charter Member since May 2004   Posted by tlp1968  -  01/02/2008 03:31 PM Shine what media do you suggest for this type of work. I thought you once mentioned that sand gets everywhere and is hard to get out, weren't you using another media? StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield,, Illinois   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/02/2008 04:14 PM i use type 6 acrylic and starblast. sand is a no no. if you soda blast you better hope you get rid if all the residue or your going to have major problems. i wont touch one . dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by sellersrodshop  -  01/02/2008 08:14 PM another thing to consider is previous bodywork/ repairs. if you run into any areas where parts mate together that have bodyfiller etc. in them, you might want to refit the parts after blasting the old stuff out. you don't want to spend the time/ money to put a good paintjob on the parts only to find out they don't mate well after reassembly. i know it's time consuming, but i reasemble the body & do the finish bodywork with the car together, then take apart for the priming, blocking, painting etc. sellersrodshop [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] old hickory, Tennessee   Posted by DaveHughes  -  01/03/2008 04:24 PM just exactly why are you striping the car? If it is the A bone in your pic- it doesnt realy look that bad. Are you sure you must Strip it??Just curious.. DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/03/2008 12:17 PM The paint is laquer and looks good on the sides, but trunck and top are checking. If soda blasting is not agood way to go. what would you recommend? I have no paint booth, just using the garage out back. Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/03/2008 01:30 PM have it media blasted with type 5 acrylic. if done right you will only need to epoxy it and start priming and blocking. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by Rods & Customs by Leon  -  01/03/2008 06:38 PM Some might think it sounds crazy but its much easier than you think, Try hand stripping it with a razor blade on a scrapper. The aged laquer will flake right off. The good thing about hand sripping it is you can save all of the bodywork and even the primer Rods & Customs by Leon [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Highlands, Texas Charter Member since May 2004   Posted by 31tudor  -  01/03/2008 06:46 PM Why not just hit it with a DA??? Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by Rods & Customs by Leon  -  01/03/2008 09:39 PM DA leaves it to wavy. Rods & Customs by Leon [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Highlands, Texas Charter Member since May 2004   Posted by 31tudor  -  01/04/2008 10:07 AM But the DA would be a good choice to strip the old lacquer, then prime and block... right? I'm no painter though. Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/04/2008 10:33 AM da's are as useless as tits on a boar hog. good for feather edges and stuff but not for stripping paint. i would peel it with a razor blade first but media blasting would be best. if your going to sand it off use the 3m strip disc but by the time your through the cost of blasting will look cheap dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/04/2008 10:54 AM Hey Dave Hughes, Are you saying I dont have to strip of the off laquar paint? I havent called my soda blast guy yet, but any chance if he does soda blast, he does other media too? Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/04/2008 10:58 AM The part I dont understand is I was thinking that a car should be shot with primer sealer just before painting and the base color shot direct over it an hour later with out touching the car. Also that there is a window to shoot the clear over that with in the window. It that true? Does leave any time for curing. I would think that is a lot of layers of paint trying to cure at once. I may have my information wrong, Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by DaveHughes  -  01/04/2008 11:08 AM You will HAVE to strip anything that is checking- Most probably wont agree but if your sides are not checked ( spider webbed whatever you want to call it) it could be prepped and sealed before a ureathane type topcoat is applied. If your body is in good shape -meaning no plastic lifting or rust issues I wouldnt dig into it more than I had to. Leons suggesting of stripping with a blade is exactly what I would do first- It is slow but if you take your time and are careful you can save yourself t ons of time later. I spent about 5 hours yesterday with a blade on a bumper cover- it sucks no doubt -but the less envasive you are on your surface the easier to finish. With this being said I am not a blasting expert- I have never done any type other than sand. But I figure if your body work is good its a shame to go to bare metal. Nice looking car by the way I am building oa 30 coupe just like it for myself. Had it for years. The only thing I have I wouldnt sell. DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/04/2008 11:33 AM blading old lacquer is simple. it will separate from the primer pretty easy. i would then wet sand with 180 to get rid of as much lacquer primer as i could. then i would do 2 coats of epoxy. let cure then scuff sand it with 600. let cure over night. then base coat it, let cure over night and hit it with 1000 to knock off any trash, nice coat of base and let flash good then start clearing. you shoot it all in one day and you will have a failure to deal with. it will shrink and die back. cure time is one of the most important parts of it. thats why your lacquer is checking. too much, too fast, too thick. good luck with it. theres a bunch of damn good gun hands here to help. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by DaveHughes  -  01/04/2008 11:52 AM I ditto the porchdog,,, DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio   Posted by 31tudor  -  01/04/2008 12:52 PM See? I told you I was no painter! Eric Hibbs [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] St. George, Utah Charter Member since January 2002   Posted by sellersrodshop  -  01/04/2008 03:46 PM shine is dead on, the one thing i want to emphasize is the cure times between base & clear if you are going with a metallic base color. although the base has flashed & feels dry to the touch, if cleared too early, the clear will "reactivate" the base & the flake will mottle up if the clear is applied heavier in different areas. i'm sure you have seen silver & gold cars that look "tiger striped"or have dark spots. that is the end result of clearing too early. i like to wait at least 24 hrs before clearing a high flake job. it drastically reduces the chances of this happening. sellersrodshop [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] old hickory, Tennessee   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/10/2008 11:55 AM I have talked with a gentle man in Pa. who does nothing but streetrods , my go up to visit his shop to see first hand what kind of work he produces. Seems like very much of a perfectionist on the phone. May take the car a part and deliver fenders doors , body and other parts and say call me when it painted. Depends on his price. Dont want the inderside painted or inside the cab. What do you think about going at it this way. saves labor on dismantle and reassemble. The part I enjoy the most. Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/10/2008 11:57 AM Sorry , not "gentle man" but rather "gentlemen". Do want you to get the wrong idea. Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by 5WCoupe  -  01/10/2008 12:59 PM Hay Frank, I thought you had decided to have the soda blast guy come to your house to do it. Having a change of heart? Looks like you are going down the same road I went down now. I got quotes from two Shops to have them do exactly the same thing. I told them I would disassemble and deliver the pieces. They could strip them, paint them, and I would pick up and reassemble. Problem with these guys is that they will never quote you a firm number because they do not know what they will find when they strip it. I have been able to get two "estimates". I told the first shop that I had $9000.00 to spend and he told me that might be enough to get it in primer and block sanded. The other shop estimate was $13,000.00 complete. Good Luck 5WCoupe [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Atwater, Ohio   Posted by whipsold39  -  01/10/2008 01:08 PM If he is a perfectionist top of the line street rod painter don't be shocked at the price. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself pay the big bucks and have it done right. Remember paint products is high and if you have to do it twice you lose. Even if you have all the body work done and the primer and sealer already done most painters will go over what you have done so they know what they are painting over. Hope this makes a little bit of sense. Just my thoughts. whipsold39 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] 400 9th ave silvis 61282, Illinois Charter Member since January 2006   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/10/2008 01:19 PM first estimate should be for stripping , then one for sheetmetal/bodywork, then one for resurfacing, then for paint and polish. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/10/2008 01:41 PM Yes, I have a change of heart. No soda blasting for me, talked to someone over at "The Hotrod Garage" denten ,MD. They did a 34 ford on the cover of nov.05 strettrod builders. Top notch shop. Apsolutely Not is what I was told about soda blasting. They send their cars out for chem-strip or acrylic-blast. Funny how you can get so many different stories, some use sand at low pressure, some chemicals and some even say use 80 grit on a DA. Will let you know prices as soon as I know. Doesn't sound to encouraging though. Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/10/2008 01:44 PM Yes, I have a change of heart. No soda blasting for me, talked to someone over at "The Hotrod Garage" denten ,MD. They did a 34 ford on the cover of nov.05 strettrod builders. Top notch shop. Apsolutely Not is what I was told about soda blasting. They send their cars out for chem-strip or acrylic-blast. Funny how you can get so many different stories, some use sand at low pressure, some chemicals and some even say use 80 grit on a DA. Will let you know prices as soon as I know. Doesn't sound to encouraging though. Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/10/2008 01:54 PM i do media blasting with acrylic. average car is between 800 and 1600. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by TooFat  -  01/12/2008 10:51 PM I don't want to sound nieve , but I'm also taking your advice crazyhorse, but what is media blast, I mean what product is used. Is it plastic beads ? We have just had a new shop open up for business doing soda blasting in our area ove r the Xmas break and everything looks good , Car all sign written with Soda Blasting handing out business cards etc etc with cars already in the shop being done. So any advice is good advice, so what esle is wrong with soda blasting. TooFat [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Geelong / Australia, Other   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/13/2008 08:47 AM media blasting refers to plastic media. i use plastic to remove paint and starblast to remove rust. i researched all this for a year before getting into it. i've read and heard all the marketing hype on soda. it is for restoring monuments , brick and stone. it's used in the printing industry also. but it is not intended to be used in refinishing. if there is ANY residue left anywhere i can and will cause serious problems with adhesion. i will not even consider a car that has been soda blasted. i dont care how many cars they have done or who does it or who has a car that has been done. it's the " what if " factor. i cant afford to restrip and refinish a car . why chance it when plastic was designed to do the job and leave no contaminates . this falls along the same lines a chemstriping fiberglass. just not a good idea imo. if you go that route ask them for a written warranty and see what happens. it's a roll of the dice and a very large bet. good luck with it. by the way, soda is sodium bicarbonate aka salt. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by 5WCoupe  -  01/13/2008 10:07 AM Hey Shine, I like boop coupe, am going to be repainting my 1930 coupe soon. Coinsidently. he and I have almost exactly the same situation. (1930 All Steel, 12 year old Lacquar that is cracking and checking, (see attached PIC.))We both are considering disassembly, painting pieces/ parts, and re-assembly. As such, I have been following this thread very closely. I have been doing a lot of research over the past year and from what I can tell you are dead on on soda blasting a car. One advantage of soda blasting (if you want to call it that) is that it always leaves a film on the car that will prevent surface rust for up to 3 weeks if kept in a warm dry atmosphere. Be that as it may, I eliminated soda blasting for exactly the same reasons you have suggested. I have pretty much decided on media blasting (Plastic). I have a couple of question maybe you can answer: Since media blasting is more agressive than soda, will it effect glass, chrome, rubber molding, or existing body filler? I, like, boop coupe see no reason to remove any filler. The little bit that I have has been in there for 12 years and seems to be fine. I just want the ability to "touch things up" after media blasting. How soon after media blasting does the car have to be sealed (immeadiately? couple of hours? couple of days?) SPI has an epoxy sealer that they highly recommend. Can you use it with PPG products or does PPG have their own epoxy sealer? One further note: Although I have some experience with HVLC and Lacquar, (I am a Cabinet Maker), I know my limitations. My plan is to disassemble, pay a local shop to media blast, and do myself from bare metal to primer including block sanding. I am working with a local shop to apply base coat/clear coat and he wants to use PPG products. I apologize for the wordy response, but asking questions of knowledgable people is a good way to learn. 5WCoupe [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Atwater, Ohio   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/13/2008 10:20 AM if done properly the plastic will not hurt anything ( low pressure ). when all the oem paint was failing they simply duct taped around edges of glass and such. after blasting i clean and epoxy asap. spi will work fine. i only use ppg for color. i do not like their epoxy or clears. the 57 restomod i have here in builders corner tested and proved spi's quality. it out performs dupont and ppg both. i'm hard to please when it comes to paint. have you tried razor blading it? most old lacquer jobs were not done right and the color will separate from primer easily. then you can block the primer off . let me know if i can help. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by 5WCoupe  -  01/13/2008 04:50 PM Not tried razor blading it off. Never did it. Is there a special razor blade tool for this job? Do you soften it first with lacquar thinner or something? How do you get in the knooks and crannies. Is sanding the primer off a manual operation or can you use electric sanders? Random orbital? DA? Then how do you get the primer out of the knooks and crannies? Denny 5WCoupe [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Atwater, Ohio   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/14/2008 07:32 AM i just used a single edge blade. it is a good way to go if blasting is not an option. beats trying to sand it all off. the primer can be wet sanded with 180. comes off pretty quick. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/16/2008 08:46 AM I think I will try the laquer thinner and a single edge blade. Once the paint comes off, should I sand the primer to bare metal, or is that primer ok to go over with the epoxy primer? I have been searching for a mobile media blaster for acrylic, but no luck. I considered the idea of buying the media blaster from harbor freight, but it only shoots walnut shells and aluminum oxide. Another contaversal issue is the "purple HVLP spray gun harbor freight sells. Heard alot of good thing about this gun . Great for occassional use , not intended for everyday use. I also think the Itawa 400 is a good gun. When it comes to buffing out 2-stage paint, how long should you wait after shooting clear coat? Also has anyone used the " system One" kit? Frank Jones [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] clarksville, Maryland   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/16/2008 09:00 AM acrylic is reclaimed so there will be no mobile unit. no need for thinner to blade. once you get the paint off sand as much primer off as possible then epoxy it. as for the hf purple gun i bought one just to find out. it is absolutely useless. it will not even pass for a primer gun here. those who use it end up with excessive film build and solvent pop which they try to blame on product failure. lets get real here , a 40 dollar paint gun ? you might as well use a roller. the iwata is the best gun i've ever used bar none. if you use spi clear you can buff tomorrow or next month. use ppg or dupont you best hit it quick within 24 hrs or your buffing concrete. dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by DaveHughes  -  01/16/2008 09:33 AM I also would not use anything to soften the paint if I was going to blade it, The harder the better as it will come off in "sheets" (small ones though) lol. I have never used the cheap guns, but it is cructial to use a gun that properly breaks up the solids to get a uniform finish, especially metalics, We use only devilibis but there are others that are as good or better, I use a devilibis plus and I like it but I am used to it, another guy might pick it up and hate it,If you have never used a hvlp gun then you will must relearn all of your spraying techniques as it is completly different than the old guns were. Your paint will be running onto the floor before you know it. If you dont have a good gun try to borrow one from a buddy. I like to try to sand my clear about 24-48 hours after sprayed then let it set about 24hours after i sand it before buffing, It works best for me that way. Just my.02 and that about exactly what its worth. good luck DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/16/2008 09:39 AM dave, if you get a chance try some spi universal clear. not only does it lay down good but it is a breeze to buff. cure time does not really matter. it will buff in 2 days or 3 months . dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  01/16/2008 10:14 AM hey, be sure to wear eye protection. those paint chips can really cause damage............ ask me how i know dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003   Posted by DaveHughes  -  01/16/2008 01:07 PM I would like to try the spi, heard lots of good things about it, I still have a favorite that lots of people think is crazy but I like transtar as good as any I have ever used- we use only ppg color but there clear dont compare to transtar imo. your dead on on ppg clear if you miss the window to buff you might as well give it up. I will have to try the spi some time soon. DaveHughes [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] seaman, Ohio   Posted by boop coupe  -  01/16/2008 03:09 PM I was just on the eastwood site. They have a few media blasters that are not to costly. The media they sell for their blaster is poly bead 20/30 grit.