What's the ideal Idling Temp of a 350 with a mild cam and 350 turbo
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What's the ideal Idling Temp of a 350 with a mild cam and 350 turbo
Posted: October 15 2007 02:39 PM
 
Heath LeMoine (aka 56chevytruck) [ View ] [ heathlemoine@gmail.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
Midlothian, Texas
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I was just wondering what the ideal temp is while idling. My truck is currently idling at about 190. I have been told to remove the thermostat and put in a racing washer or just run without the thermostat. I am running an electric fan that is wired to turn on with the ignition.
 
 
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Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  10/15/2007 02:49 PM
who ever you are listening to ....stop !!!! never run without a thermostat. normal temp is 195 - 200. if you idle long enough it will keep rising.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by Willys33  -  10/15/2007 02:50 PM
Just picking one spot (idle) will not give a complete picture of the state of the cooling system. Does it run hot at, say 70 or does the temp climb after running on the freeway then stopping? Do an advanced search regarding thermostats. In other words, define your "problem" before you find a solution.
Get off the trailer and drive [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Alamogordo, New Mexico
 
Posted by da34guy  -  10/15/2007 03:10 PM
Leave the thermo in, run a 160 degree. Without 1 yer runnin the coolant thru the rad to fast.
It's gotta stay in the rad long enuf to cool down.
A SBC like to run at 190 to 210. Remember--running a 16 lb cap, coolant won't boil til around 250.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by 56chevytruck  -  10/15/2007 03:21 PM
ok, the temp will drop to about 180 when driving and at highway speeds. while at long lights it hits about 190 - 195. I was skeptical and have always ran a thermostat. This is why i brought this up to my fellow board members. Now i have to get it tuned correctly. readjusted the air/fuel mixture on the edelbrock and timing. Will see how it runs now. Thanks again for the suggestions.
Say What... [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Midlothian, Texas
 
Posted by tlp1968  -  10/15/2007 03:38 PM
Listen to these guys and not the folks who have been talking to you. I raced for a time with several different small blocks and they were easy to keep cool with a 160 therm. If you are looking for cooler temps do you have a shroud?
StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield, Illinois Charter Member since August 2003
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  10/15/2007 03:39 PM
most of mine will hit 210-220 with a/c on at a light. until i started using aluminum rads. now they are controlled by the thermostat on the fan. have yet to have a temp problem with aluminum.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by 1carguy  -  10/15/2007 03:43 PM
I know guys that have spent buckets of money on their cars and still can't get to 190-195 at idle. To me, it doesn't sound like you have a problem.
1carguy [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Pleasanton, California
 
Posted by 56chevytruck  -  10/15/2007 03:52 PM
Tammy, I value everyones opinion on this site, that is why i keep asking questions. I am running a Howes cross flow Aluminum Radiator with a 22-24 lb cap. I do need to look into buying or having a shroud made for sure. Shine what temp in the thermostat on the fan set to kick in? AC will probably be next year , need to save up for the vintage air unit. Thanks again
Say What... [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Midlothian, Texas
 
Posted by gman0046  -  10/15/2007 04:20 PM
22-24 # cap? Sounds kind of high to me . Are you sure?
gman0046 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Anchorage, Kentucky
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  10/15/2007 04:40 PM
the 56 big window in aug with air on. fans comes on at 205 goes off at about 190. the rad and fan do a great job of controlling it. the fan only stays on for about 60 to 90 sec. i use the big fan from summit .
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by 56chevytruck  -  10/15/2007 05:02 PM
sound like i need to wire the fan to come on at around 205 , will look into this after some more shake down runs, the truck has been sitting for awhile at my friends body shop. Gman yes 22-24 lb cap, that is what the howe radiators run, or atleast my application.
Say What... [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Midlothian, Texas
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/15/2007 06:59 PM
What carb? What is the timing at, vac advance? If so where is it hooked, constant vac or ported of the carb initiated when the blades are open?


Assuming the combonation is close, I would say the thermostat you currently have is too cold for the fuel we are running today. I like to see around 200-210. Cooler usually means your not burning the fuel as efficiently as you could. Of course if you have hot motor, doesn't sound like it, cooler temps are better to a point. Everyone knows a race motor that predetonates is a timebomb.
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by Eliot Ness  -  10/15/2007 07:13 PM
On a SBC are you guys running your temp sensor in the head or in the intake? And if you've tried both have you noticed a difference in readings between the two locations?

I have a Walker Cobra radiator with a Cooling Components electric fan/shroud. I used to be concerned about hitting 210 - 215 on a hot (95 degree plus) day, but from what a lot of you have to say I shouldn't worry about that too much. My temp sensor is located in the head so I'm curious if that is reading a bit high since it is very close to a header tube.
John [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Lexington, Kentucky
 
Posted by tlp1968  -  10/15/2007 08:09 PM
My temp sensor is in the head. I thought the sensor part was in the tip so as to not be effected by the headers. What have you guys ever heard about this?
StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield, Illinois Charter Member since August 2003
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/15/2007 09:44 PM
Head is the combustion chamber, where the heat is made.........

Also, you are measuring coolant temp, not ambient air temp, so the sensor is in the coolant passage and hopefully the wires and/or mechanical sender line are not too close to the header so they won't melt.....
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/15/2007 09:55 PM
Most gm injected vehicles with electric fans, will turn on at 227 degrees. Ford is usally 215. If it is a vette, some were 236.


Remember, coolant is not supposed to be mostly water, cause it boils at 212 in open air, sooner underpressure. "Anti-freeze" has a higher boiling point. With the new higher temp engines the radiator cap had to be able to withstand higher pressures, hence the higher rated caps and better radiators so the seams don't blow and the coolant wont blow past the cap. also the reason for closed cooling systems with overflow tanks that allow the expansion of coolant and a reservior so the engine can pull in what it pushed out.


In the old days you used to leave a few inches from the top for this, so the coolant didn't spill on the ground......


You would be surprized at how many people topped off the radiators and then freaked out when they stopped and the coolant spilled on the ground, thinking the engine had "boiled " over. When actually it was "making room" cause it was over full.
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by Eliot Ness  -  10/15/2007 10:07 PM
<< I thought the sensor part was in the tip so as to not be effected by the headers.>>

Tammy, I was looking at instructions from VDO for their sender and they say, "the location must be in the engine block - not in the cylinder head, where exhaust heat would cause faulty readings." I've heard conflicting stories about this so I was wondering what other members might have experienced.

<< hopefully the wires and/or mechanical sender line are not too close to the header so they won't melt.>>

Jaws, I used some heat resistant loom and some heat shield to keep that from happening. I know the newer engines run hotter, but my concern is are those same temps safe for a mid 70's to mid 80's SBC.
John [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Lexington, Kentucky
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/16/2007 03:40 AM
Eliot, are you talking carbed or injected?


Injected engines will run hotter, leaner and make more power on the less fuel consumed as the fuel is more eficiently placed into each cylinder due to injector location at each intake port. We're not even gonna bring up fuel and ignition timing on this one.


With a carb, fuel is drawn by cylinder vacuum out of the carburator discharge nozzeles, amount dependent on "jet" size. The inner 4 cylinders on a v8 get most of it cause they are closer in theroy. Hence the reason so many manifold designs( I know this holds true in F.I. as well for air flow, but for the sake of the discussion we will ignore that ). Making it necessary for more fuel to make sure the outer cylinders get there share. With the more fuel in the cylinder you wont get as HOT a burn and therefore lower engine temps.

THIS IS ASSUMING THE CARB IS TUNED PROPERY AND THE IGNITION TIMING IS NOT OUT OF WHACK ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.


As timing plays a big role and so does the amount of fuel.


You know when a car makes your eyes burn when it's idling, most will say it's rich from the excess fuel out the pipe. NOT TRUE!

In reality if your air/fuel charge is too lean it will react so violently that most is lost out the pipe as the "explosion" set of from the spark happens so fast that it doesn't get to "burn" across the entire air/fuel charge. Wasting what little was taken in the cylinder. Making high hydrocarbons (HC)'s on your smog test.

Now take too much fuel into the cylinder and ignite it, the burn takes off across the charge, but there's so much that it doesn't have time either to completely consume it. Making black smoke or blue if it is taking oil from the cylinder wall with it, called "washing".


As I got off track, too hot a temp is not good for either generation small block or any engine for that matter, but with that said , the newer ones were designed/casted with different molecular structure for the iron in the blocks to with stand hotter temps.

Much in concept of hardend valve seats due to unleaded motors. That was done in the early 70's same with reducing the nickel content in the blocks. Earlier small blocks, like the39700010 350's were cast till 72 with higher nickel. The later ones were already being "set up" for the "new" technology planned. The newer stuff can handle 250+ and recover, earlier cannot. Niether can the coolant for either, so as long as it's not boiling it'self dry. Making it really hot as air pockets in a coolant passage don't cool at all, they will be fine as long as the tune is good and no predetonation. That goes for both sides of the fence.


Sorry for all the useless info and rambling, I hope I didn't confuse anyone as much as I did myself. I know what I wanted to say, but I don't think I made it across very clearly. There is a lot to this iceberg...................
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by tlp1968  -  10/16/2007 04:18 AM
You did say a mouthful Brant but a lot of what you said I have heard before from other mechanics in my life. I was talking about this discussion with my clearing house (husband) and he said when you get 6 mechanics in the room you will get 6 different opinions. Some the same some radically different. As has been said by you and others we are assuming this small block is tuned correctly and that the cooling system is the problem. I just have this to add from the other mechanic in the house- If the car cools down when you start moving again you are not moving enough air at idle and then you need to check the fan for the amount of air it is either pushing or pulling, making sure the radiator is the correct size for application and adding a shroud. His comment was it isn't the getting to 200 that is so bad it is continuing to climb and climb.
StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield, Illinois Charter Member since August 2003
 
Posted by TYCHOOCHOO  -  10/16/2007 03:00 PM
My 34 Ford Coupe runs at about 125 around town and 180 on the highway. I have an electric fan that runs all the time. Should I check to see if there is a thermostat or should I wire the fan so it shuts off? I have a 350 Chevy with the Temp Sensor in the intake Manifold. What is the timing for this engine? I have a 600 carb and a new dist and wires, new plugs. When I jump on it, the car spits and coughs like it's not getting enough fuel but runs good around town. Once in a while while sitting at a light it runs rough in drive. Should I move the fuel filter from under the car to under the hood so it's on the other side of the fuel pump? This is the way I bought the car.
Tommy choo choo [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] MT. SINAI, New York Charter Member since June 2007
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/17/2007 08:15 PM
Thankyou for bringing this area up Tammy. You and your hubby are correct. As you said the tune being correct in assumption would have to hang the rest of the problem on the cooling system, air and coolant flowing characteristics.



Just as I said prior, the topic around engine temp is a huge iceberg.


Hopefully here are some answers to the questions or at least some food for thought as far as a direction to take in diagnosisng the issue.



-Brant
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/17/2007 08:19 PM
TYCHOOCHOO,


Almost sounds like the timing is too retarded, due to the spittin and sputtering when you jump on it. Also the temp increase under load is affected by too retarded timing. Possible the engine has higher compression and needs some higher octane fuel so to acommodate the timing increase. Some more details about the engine if you know, would help me a little. Without seeing the car myself, I can only speculate and bench race about it...........
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by TYCHOOCHOO  -  10/17/2007 08:59 PM
Jaws,


This is what I get for letting someone that claims to know how to tune race cars tune the car. I found the plugs to look a little lean and 2 plug wires were not all the way on the plugs. Then I went to push down on the distrbutor wires and found the distrbutor was loose. I haven't driven the car yet after I made the repairs but I'm hoping this was the problem. I haven't timed the engine yet and was wondering what degree I should use for timing. It's a 350 chevy with a 600cfm Edelbrock Carburetor Heavy Duty HEI Power Distrbutor and from what I understand a mild Crane cam. The Plugs are gaped at .040. Any help would be great. Tychoochoo or Tommy Choo Choo.
Tommy choo choo [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] MT. SINAI, New York Charter Member since June 2007
 
Posted by dixie  -  10/18/2007 02:29 AM
I run 12 degrees with the cam you can run a little more,if your running vacum advance.Then again i don't no what built in your dist.if any. all i run is a stock hei in one an points in the other [because i have a bunch of extras]
jim grace [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dade city, Florida Charter Member since January 2006
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/18/2007 03:14 PM
Tommy, if you have a timing light, check to see what your initial timing is at idle currently. After she's warmed up run it up to about 2500 and check it again. You will have to use a timing light with an adjustable advance setup. This will give you your total advance.


Sounds to me like Dixie is right on about the advance built in your distrubutor and the vacuum advance. You may have a case where the timing is fine around town and low engine speeds, but too retarded at higher rpms where you would be at a cruise or running down the road at a good pace. If this is the case your engine is working too hard and heating up due to poor ignition timing.


No way to know for sure till ya' check the initial and total.


On a second note, you mentioned the plugs looked "lean", I assume you meant white in color. Too lean is a problem also.


All part of this iceberg.......
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by TYCHOOCHOO  -  10/18/2007 03:25 PM
JAWS, I increased the fuel air mix to make it a little richer. I gave it about 3/4 of a turn. I don't have that kind of timing light and will have to get one. I'm from the old school (not that it was a good school) and have an old style timing light that is about 25 years old. I guess it's time for a new one. Any sugestions? I don't know the timing at this time but when the engine is hot it has a very slow crank before it starts.
Tommy choo choo [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] MT. SINAI, New York Charter Member since June 2007
 
Posted by tlp1968  -  10/18/2007 05:00 PM
Hot start is a problem that can be huge but with your timing issues I would start there. I am right with you on the timing light. I think my husband bought the one we used for years from the Mac Tools or Snap On guy when he was a mechanic or maybe even as far back as tech school but when it finally died we just ran out to Sears. Probably not the best timing light in the world but it seems to work O.K.
StreetRodding.com Marketing Director [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Springfield, Illinois Charter Member since August 2003
 
Posted by Eliot Ness  -  10/18/2007 10:25 PM
<< I don't have that kind of timing light and will have to get one. >>

Tommy, you could also just get some timing tape and put it on your balancer; just make sure you buy the right size tape for the diameter of your harmonic balancer. I'm not an expert in that area so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that work as well if not better than an adjustable timing light? You can get the tape for less than $5 at Jegs, Summit, or some local auto parts might even carry it.
John [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Lexington, Kentucky
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/19/2007 02:03 AM
Tommy all you did was richen the idle mixture, most likely wont affect your take off. The slow crank is interesting as it would idicate initial timing would be too advanced, that or lots of compression. You mentioned earlier that the engine was "tuned" by a racer. It would really help if we had more specs on the motor.


Eloit, good idea on the tape. In theory it works as you say. If you can get to the timing marks as it is revvvved up and can hold the light at the same time.........
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by JAWS  -  10/19/2007 02:10 AM
The timing light I am speaking about has an adjustable "0". You move the dial or digital #'s up or down til your mark is at "0" on the timing tab. Look at your gun an the number it's indicating is your timing. If at idle it's the initial, if reved up around 2500 it's the total. Examples would be, ......12 initial and then 34 total. Depending on your engine combo, carb, compression, cam, heads, etc... will dictate what your engine want's for both.

Also I should note that depending on your advance weights and curve, etc the rpm for total may be higher or lower. You can find this out by adjusting the rpms and seeing if the timing mark moves from the "0" you set it with the advance knob or button.

Hope that makes some sense...
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by dixie  -  10/19/2007 04:35 AM
Very good jaws
jim grace [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dade city, Florida Charter Member since January 2006
 
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