Carb and Timing
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Carb and Timing
Posted: May 12 2007 12:15 PM
 
Tim Kinsella (aka timkins) [ View ] [ tkinsell@rochester.rr.com ] [ Car Ads ] [ Blogs ]
Fishers, New York
(585) 924-5964
 
My 32 has a stock 350 with an Edelbrock 600 on it. I put a Mallory distributor in it and it ran fine for a while. It started acting like it was running too rich. I took it to my local mechanic (my son) and he discovered I had nearly 65 degrees of advance at 3000 rpm. Completely disconnected the vacuum advance from the carb and plugged both ends, now has about 35 degrees advance at 3000rpm. The car seems to run better but it is still too rich. The next step ( I think) will be tuning the carb to .089 Primary, 075X.047 metering and silver springs. Am I on the right track? It also seems to be using a little bit of oil as the number one plug comes out rather crappy but not completed fouled and I am putting a qt of oil in occassionally. If I switched to a Holley carb as "Shine" suggests, do you think this will remedy my problems?
 
 
Comments
 
Posted by Streetrodder007  -  05/12/2007 04:17 PM
If you are going through a quart of oil , a complete rebuild could be in your future. Put a compression gauge on each cylinder and crank the engine over a couple times. If its below 100 lbs. , rebuild the motor or the heads, perferably both. But it could be something as simple as valve train to tight or bad guides or valve seals also though.

I am suprised it could even run at 65 degree's advanced. Depending on the motor, how wild or tame it is. I start out my baseline timing at 10 degrees for 750 rpm. As long as you have a good running carb, no matter what brand it is, I would mess with jetting last. I would look into the basics first. Compression being the main thing, and timing, maybe a fresh tune up. Possibly different weights for the distributor, if you run an HEI- then only change the weight springs.

I have a couple new motors that I just built, if you need any parts or pictures of something. Feel free to ask.
Streetrodder007 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Port Huron, Michigan Charter Member since April 2006
 
Posted by da34guy  -  05/12/2007 05:51 PM
The same old RICH problem !!!!! Why a 650 cfm? 350 cu.in at wide open throttle only requires 510 cfm. Why does everybody put a 650 on them and then try to jet it down?

A 500 cfm Edelbrock has worked great for me on the last 15 - 20 SBC's

Runnin 1 on the the Nu Orange coupe and that hi windin 377 (8000 rpm) don't starve at all.

This is 1 time when BIGGER AIN'T BETTER !!!!!!!!!!!
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by timkins  -  05/12/2007 06:37 PM
There is a 600 CFM on it because that is what came with the car. I am not smart enough to build one from scratch so I have to go with whatever came with the car and trust that the person who built the car knew what they were doing. That is why I am asking questions of people with more knowledge than me.
timkins [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Fishers, New York Charter Member since March 2002
 
Posted by Streetrodder007  -  05/12/2007 07:33 PM
Dont cut yourself short and say you cannot build a motor. You can learn to do any of this car stuff.

Don made a good point about CFM, and mostly because this sounds like a lower horsepower motor. Contrary to popular belief, re-jetting does not change the amount of gasoline coming through the carb. CFM is CFM is CFm etc etc. The CFM rating of your carb is what it will flow at wide open throttle. Re-jetting will change the amount of air to fuel mixture, but you have to regulate hard to bring down too much gas.
Streetrodder007 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Port Huron, Michigan Charter Member since April 2006
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/12/2007 09:31 PM
rich motor will wash down cyclinder walls. you loose comp past rings which causes blow by and oil use. cant help with the edlebrock. i've just always ran holleys. before you start pulling motors i would get a lean tune on it, change oil and put some serious hwy miles on it to reseat the rings. use cheaper oil so you can change it at around 500 miles or so. as for the distributor someone has been monkeying with the vac advance. it is adjustable. good luck.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by da34guy  -  05/12/2007 09:33 PM
You said your son was a mechanic---

He should have seen that the carb was too big for the engine right off the bat.
Don [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Prescott, Arizona Charter Member since October 2001
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/12/2007 09:43 PM
if you do go to a holley drop down to the 465 or 390 cfm . you'll get way better performance/millage . blue smoke is a sure sign of a fat motor.
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by dixie  -  05/12/2007 10:01 PM
Have to agree with everyone on the big carbs "" BUT"" i have been useing 600 carbs for a long time just always seem to end up with them mostly holley but have a ELB on the rat motor. you can make the 600 work just fine if you will tune it ,my 400sbc has one on it with no problems at all. had to clean up the elb on bb buts it fine now. it will get a holley the first bargin i find. i know what the maths says about the 600 on a 350 but it just don't work that way all the time a 600 will work fine on a 350 if tuned ,holley peffered most of the over fueling SHINE talks about comes from a out of the box elb they are famous for that and he's right . like 34 said he's a mechanic,should haved fixed the dist. take it out an check it sumeone has probaly changed the weights an springs and didn't no what they were doing are mayebe welded them check it out man HOLLEYs ARE BETTER good luck
jim grace [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] dade city, Florida Charter Member since January 2006
 
Posted by SandHCustomRods  -  05/13/2007 08:18 AM
We have two new Holley 600 cfm vacuum secondary carburetors for sale.

They came off of new 350 HO deluxe engines.

If interested email me or give me a call.

If you call please call after May 16th.

Probably best to drop me an email and I will call you back.
S & H Custom Rods [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Eagle Rock, Missouri
 
Posted by carpro1946  -  05/13/2007 11:12 AM
If it just started acting too rich you might have a carb full of trash. This will cause the needle and seat to not function properly. Get someone to take the carb apart and clean it completely. If you don't have a large filter by the tank [in line ] put one there and also a small metal one up by the motor [ before the pump if possible] before you restart the motor.


I fix 4 or 5 cars a year with this same problem.
carpro1946 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] hebron, Maryland Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by etaj  -  05/17/2007 08:30 PM
I had the same problem-using oil-with the same engine & carb you have. The first thing I did was check the fuel pressure-following the advice of some of the S.R.com guys. It was over 9psi. I installed a fuel pressure regulator, set it to about 3psi, and the oil consumption dropped. I noticed an improvement right away, pipes are clean, and plugs look good. And it 's still getting better after a few hundred miles on it. It was the easiest thing to do, and it seems to have fixed my oil usage problem. Good luck.
etaj [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Wake Forest, North Carolina
 
Posted by Streetrodder007  -  05/17/2007 09:31 PM
Nice lookin car Eddy !
I set my fuel pressures on SBC to 5- 5.5 , that is what I have had luck with.
Streetrodder007 [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Port Huron, Michigan Charter Member since April 2006
 
Posted by RSLUGGOBOY  -  05/17/2007 11:13 PM
BLACK SMOKE IS TOO RICH , BLUE SMOKE IS OIL.
RSLUGGOBOY [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] SALINAS, California
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/18/2007 09:44 AM
Yes and no. Too much fuel will wash the cylinders and make blue smoke also as it is pulling oil with it. You are right about dumping fuel in in a hurry though, that will produce black smoke.


Problem is most will compensate with timing, like the case in point. 65 degrees is almost double what it should be.
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by Crazyhorse Rod Shop  -  05/19/2007 07:09 AM
black smoke is fuel/no air , blue smoke is fue/oil ,white smoke is time for a new motor
dont poke the porchdog........he bites [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] BLUFF DALE, Texas Charter Member since March 2003
 
Posted by sixguns  -  05/20/2007 10:02 AM
Tim,You are on the right track. I have run lots of the Edlebrocks, they are by far the easiest carb to tune. They come with a book with fuel ratio charts, step by step tunning procedures, and you can rejet one in less than two min and not spill a drop of gas. By design, the Vacuum secondary carb only runs off the primarys till it needs to pull more, So its tuff to overcarb without getting stupid about it. Going to a holley may also need to be tuned out of the box so switching to one is not an automatic cure to your problem. I would stick with your current carb and dial in the mixture, you cant beat an Edelbrock for the street and ease of tunning.
Enjoy the Ride [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Woodland, Washington Charter Member since June 2002
 
Posted by JAWS  -  05/20/2007 11:51 AM
Make sure you keep a box of extra accellerator pumps if it's gonna be a driver. Other than that they are fine.
An electrical headache can make a great car a pain [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Boise, Idaho Charter Member since August 2004
 
Posted by timkins  -  05/20/2007 04:32 PM
Thanks to all who wrote with suggestions and encouragement. I tried several combinations today before I came up with one that seems to work much better than the way it was. I wound up using .098 main jets, with .070x.047 metering rods and pink springs. It seems to work well today but it is rainy and overcast here in upstate NY so maybe tomorrow will be different. Again Thanks!!
timkins [ View ] [ Email ] [ Blogs ] [ Car Ads ] Fishers, New York Charter Member since March 2002
 
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